Brazilian Victory in the Battle of Ituzaingo

unprincipled peter

Donor
I suspect that a single victory is not going to win the war. A victory here would put Brazil on better footing, and maybe allow them to season into a decent fighting force, but they're have to subdue the Uruguayan countryside and occupy Montevideo. That's a tall order for a fledgling country barely holding on itself. Invasion of Argentina probably is not an option, certainly not Buenos Aires. In an unlikely wank, maybe Entre Rios.
 

Guilherme Loureiro

Winning the battle is (somewhat) simple, the Brazilian Army left the field but the Uruguayans and Argentinians were too exhausted(after 11 hours of fighting) to follow it(or do anything else than occupy the field), with parts of their army crumbling by the end of the Battle just as in the Brazilian Army(that's why the Brazilians say the battle was a tactical draw while Uruguayans and Argentinians say it's a victory). So what the Brazilians had to do was to stay on the field a bit longer, which may have been possible or not.

As for it being enough to win the war, it wasn't. Brazil already had control of the coastal cities of Uruguay, what Ituzaingó/Passo do Rosário did was confirm Brazil didn't have control of the Uruguayan interior(and Brazil didn't have it since at least the Battle of Sarandí). What could win the war(and was winning it) for Brazil was the Buenos Aires blockade, which never was really threatened(the last effective try to threaten the blockade ended in Argentinian defeat, nearly two months after Ituzaingó/Passo do Rosário - the Battle of Monte Santiago).

In the end, Ituzaingó/Passo do Rosário doesn't mean that much. If Brazil could have extended the blockade up to late 1828, it would win, no matter how many battles in the interior Brazil loses(the Brazilian Navy also assured Montevideo stayed in Brazilian hands). Could Brazil do so? Maybe, maybe not. Both sides were exhausted by early 1828, that's why they accepted mediation to end the war.
 
GauchoBadger

GauchoBadger

I'm gonna have to agree that only naval superiority would define victory in the conflict. So we'd have to go back a few days and manipulate a new PoD at the arguably more decisive naval battle of Juncal.
 

Guilherme Loureiro

GauchoBadger said:
I'm gonna have to agree that only naval superiority would define victory in the conflict. So we'd have to go back a few days and manipulate a new PoD at the arguably more decisive naval battle of Juncal.
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Juncal should have been more decisive(and I wonder why the Argentinians and Uruguayans don't remember it more); it wasn't, because the Brazilian Navy bounced back and trashed the Argentinian Navy at Monte Santiago 2 months later. The Brazilian squadron destroyed at Juncal was one of (IIRC) 4 squadrons the Brazilian Navy had on the River Plate, so you'd have to get some quick back-to-back victories to lift the blockade of Buenos Aires.

EDIT:
To be honest, I'm not sure. Guilherme indicates they were, so I'll believe that.
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As far as I remember, Brazil controlled both Montevideo and Colonia, but I think smaller littoral towns also were under Brazilian control.

Apropos of a better Brazilian performance on the field of battle: Suppose the raid of March 1827 on Carmen de Patagones by Brazilian Marines succeeds and manages to destroy the town's port facilities. Does it change anything? Carmen de Patagones(937 km SW of Buenos Aires) was the only Argentinian port not under blockade by Brazil, and was used as a base for Argentinian privateers.
 
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Banghogs

Banghogs

Noscoper said:
Is there anyway Brazil can win the Cisplatine War and keep Uruguay ?
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Well, Brazil could try to invade the Argentine territory by the seas, since the best military force of Brazil at that time was the navy (built with the help of an English lord). This way, Argentine troops would be busy trying to defend their own territory, and the land war would be resumed between the Cisplatina troops against the Brazilian troops. Strange as it may seem, this would be the best strategy in this case, since Brazil was in fact already facing Uruguay and Argentina together; it would be easier to separate enemy fronts and armies. The ground forces in Brazil were not so good, but they were more trained and prepared than the forces of Cisplatina, which would result in a land victory and the failure of Cisplatina in the battle. Argentina would ask for a truce in the war and then a peace treaty, since they had just emerged from a revolution and no longer had the strength for an even longer battle. As a result, Brazil would maintain Cisplatina and over time, and relations with Argentina/United Provinces would improve eventually.
 
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