Brazilian Expedition Force

IOTL, Brazil sent a trained infantry division to fight in Italy during WW2. The Brazilian Expedition Force, Forca Expedicionaria Brasileria, FEB, was limited to 25,000 men. IOTL, at first it was considered sending a corp of 4 divisions, 100,000 men. WI these plans had gone through. To show that Brazil was the number one Latin Ally a four division corp with 100,000 men would be sent. To go with the force Brazil would send both of it's battleships to then be based in the Mediterranean. President Roosevelt promised a seat on the UN Security Council. With the additional force the fighting in Italy ended in October 1944.
 

SsgtC

Banned
To go with the force Brazil would send both of it's battleships to then be based in the Mediterranean. President Roosevelt promised a seat on the UN Security Council.

Never happen. The 2 Brazilian BBs were massively obsolete and badly worn out. There is no way the allies would even want those two ships in theater.

And Brazil in no way shape or form is getting a seat at the table with one Corps committed to the fighting. That would be a massive insult to the rest of the Allies who had all committed MILLIONS of men. With only 100,000 men, there is no way in hell Brazil gets treated as an equal.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Never happen. The 2 Brazilian BBs were massively obsolete and badly worn out. There is no way the allies would even want those two ships in theater.

And Brazil in no way shape or form is getting a seat at the table with one Corps committed to the fighting. That would be a massive insult to the rest of the Allies who had all committed MILLIONS of men. With only 100,000 men, there is no way in hell Brazil gets treated as an equal.
Heck the Canadian contribution was greater than that with it having the 3rd largest navy at the end of war and its economy completely on war footing. It had trained almost all the commonwealth fighter pilots and bombers and it did not even get honorable mentioning. So unfortunately you would need a POD before 1900!for Brazil to have the industrial capacity to be considered in the big boys league.
 
IOTL, Brazil sent a trained infantry division to fight in Italy during WW2. The Brazilian Expedition Force, Forca Expedicionaria Brasileria, FEB, was limited to 25,000 men. IOTL, at first it was considered sending a corp of 4 divisions, 100,000 men. WI these plans had gone through. To show that Brazil was the number one Latin Ally a four division corp with 100,000 men would be sent. To go with the force Brazil would send both of it's battleships to then be based in the Mediterranean. President Roosevelt promised a seat on the UN Security Council. With the additional force the fighting in Italy ended in October 1944.
92,757 Canadians served in Italy, I don't think an extra 7,243 would have gotten us a seat on the security council.
 
I'd have to go back and find the source documents, but the Brazilian Army had problems with soldiers being medically fit to deploy...could a second division be deployed? POD would probably have to be in early 1942
 
Yes but we also participated in D-Day plus our navy. On top of that Canadian war factories and our resources were all furares to war.
I'm well aware of that, I specifically only mentioned our huge contribution to the Italian front to make it clear how 100k in Italy =/= permanent seat on the security council.
 
Heck the Canadian contribution was greater than that with it having the 3rd largest navy at the end of war and its economy completely on war footing. It had trained almost all the commonwealth fighter pilots and bombers and it did not even get honorable mentioning. So unfortunately you would need a POD before 1900!for Brazil to have the industrial capacity to be considered in the big boys league.

President Roosevelt promised a seat on the UN Security Council

I'm well aware of that, I specifically only mentioned our huge contribution to the Italian front to make it clear how 100k in Italy =/= permanent seat on the security council.

This

Roosevelt was a personal friend of president Vargas, he promised him a seat on the UN security concil and even invited him to join the Yalta conference, but Vargas refused because he was afraid of a coup

There is this article about the subject, "On how Brazil almost became a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council in 1945" but sadly it is in portuguese

What aborted the brazilian entry on the security concil according to article was the replacement of Cordel Hull with Edward Stettinius as secretary of state, and he dropped the proposal by telegraphing the brazilian embassy and saying that "The USA wouldn't push for a permanent seat for Brazil in the security concil". I'm not saying that Brazil could get one, but it maybe would have some chance if Cordel Hull was not removed and Roosevelt lived a few months more
 
FAB(brazilian air force),was about to send a fighter group to the pacific,it was already trained and just about to leave when the war ended.I don´t think it would make any diference,either in the war or to gain the Un seat though.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil-United_States_relations

Is the website where you can find IOTL that President Roosevelt promised Brazil a seat on the Security Council with less contribution than ITTL.

Yes, the battleships would have to be refurbished before they could serve.

Roosevelt could promise all he wanted. He promised Britain we'd have equal access to the results of the Manhattan Project, provided we turned over all our research, sent our scientists to Oak Ridge and cancelled Tube Alloys as a separate programme. Then he died and Truman said "lol no"
 
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