Brazilian Angola?

Heisenberg

The Portuguese colony of Angola was, for most of its history, an appendage of Brazil. Brazil dominated the Angolan slave trade, for instance, and many Angolan elites were educated in Brazil rather than the metropole.

I'm wondering, is there any way for Brazil to take Angola along with them when the state becomes independent from Portugal in 1822?
 

Gonzaga

Heisenberg said:
The Portuguese colony of Angola was, for most of its history, an appendage of Brazil. Brazil dominated the Angolan slave trade, for instance, and many Angolan elites were educated in Brazil rather than the metropole.

I'm wondering, is there any way for Brazil to take Angola along with them when the state becomes independent from Portugal in 1822?
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Well, there were some considerations about Angola being kept united with Brazil, due to merchant interests. However, it was based mainly on slave trade, and therefore Britain would never allow such arrangements.
 

Braganza

Heisenberg said:
Do you have any more details?
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The 3rd Article of the Treaty of 1825 that recognized Brazilian independence - signed by the former, plus Portugal and Great Britain - determines that "His Imperial Majesty promises to not accept any propositions of any Portuguese colony to join the Empire of Brazil."[1] The Court in Lisbon was aware that the elites in Angola preferred Rio de Janeiro than them.

Some colorful ways of Angola becoming Brazilian are:
1) Napoleon won. The Court transfers permanently to Brazil, abandoning its claims in Portugal, but mantaining its colonies in Africa and Asia.
2) King João VI refuses the demands of the liberal Court to return to Lisbon. They declare a Republic - highly improbable - or give the throne to another Noble family. Chaos ensures, with War or not, and the Braganza mantains their rule in Angola.
3) There isn't an article in the Treaty about the Potuguese colonies. The elites rebel succesfully against the K.o.Portugal and join the E.o.Brazil.

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[1]PEREIRA, Aline P. p. 240. In Portuguese:
http://www.historia.uff.br/stricto/teses/Dissert-2007_PEREIRA_Aline_Pinto-S.pdf
 
iori

iori

othyrsyde said:
Well, either way it would be different.
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Indeed.

Demographically Angola would definitely be different in fact this could lead to a situation with Angola being a White plurality country; up until the mid-20th century Angola's population was'nt really that overtly high (it was around 1.2 million at the time of Brazilian Independence) and given Angola's similarity to Brazil in terms of climate and geography you'd very likely see Brazilians moving over there, plus the Portuguese are going to have mass migrations which would add to it.

Actually, giving it additional thought, at some point you might see indigenous South Americans moving over, which would make it even more unique.
 

othyrsyde

Iori said:
Indeed.

Demographically Angola would definitely be different in fact this could lead to a situation with Angola being a White plurality country; up until the mid-20th century Angola's population was'nt really that overtly high (it was around 1.2 million at the time of Brazilian Independence) and given Angola's similarity to Brazil in terms of climate and geography you'd very likely see Brazilians moving over there, plus the Portuguese are going to have mass migrations which would add to it.

Actually, giving it additional thought, at some point you might see indigenous South Americans moving over, which would make it even more unique.
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It could lead to a cool cultural mix. No idea how you'd accomplish this without the already mentioned PODs, but it doesn't seem strange this could have happened, especially with the monarchy fleeing to Brazil.
 
iori

iori

othyrsyde said:
It could lead to a cool cultural mix. No idea how you'd accomplish this without the already mentioned PODs, but it doesn't seem strange this could have happened, especially with the monarchy fleeing to Brazil.
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I'm imagining Luanda and Rio in an eternal contest with each over who can do the best Carnival.

Also, I can see some of the indigenous Americans who move their eventually forming their own settlement and growing, likewise if any Guarani or Paraguayans go their you could potentially end-up with Guarani as a major lingua franca among the peoples living in the less connected parts of the country (as opposed to everyone speaking Portuguese in the rest).
 
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pa_dutch

I'd love to see the cultural implications, especially in terms of music and capoeira with a lot of transatlantic influences going back and forth.
 

Roberto

I rather doubt that there would be significant Amerindian emigration/influence on Angola. Very few Indians would have the means to make the transatlantic crossing, and they're not going to brought over for labor because the elite already have a local population to exploit.

Maybe in the more modern era this could be possible, but I still don't see very many reasons for it other than coolness.

Depending on the time range of this scenario, it could affect the Brazilian-Argentinian conflicts over Uruguay. I see two options. A) Brazil focuses on transatlantic trade and settlement, and loses interest in the Cisplatine or B) to cement Uruguay, black settlers from Angola are brought to places like Colonia Da Sacramento and Maldonado.
 

Braganza

thekingsguard said:
Another thing to consider - just how might this effect the Scramble for Africa?
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Well, Brazil could - and probably would - take part in the Scramble for Africa. It would be curious to see both Rio de Janeiro and Lisbon competing over colonies and protectorates.
 

Superman

I think a French victory during the Napoleonic Wars is the best way to go, since it would cause the Portuguese to move to Brazil but retain their colonies, including Angola.
 
iori

iori

Roberto said:
I rather doubt that there would be significant Amerindian emigration/influence on Angola. Very few Indians would have the means to make the transatlantic crossing, and they're not going to brought over for labor because the elite already have a local population to exploit.

Maybe in the more modern era this could be possible, but I still don't see very many reasons for it other than coolness.
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Their are four situations it could happen under;

1. A Religious movement (sycretic Christian) among one of the larger Amerindians groups leads them to go on an exodus to Africa to found a new community.

2. The Racial system being such that the Amerindians would be better off in Angola, since they'd not only be above blacks in the racial system, but Whites would'nt be highly prevalent thus taking even more pressure off them/less discimination.

3. A situation developing where, following multiple incidencts among the native african population, Ameridnians are brought in to do a job (that they could'nt convince whites to do) as a result of being seen as more loyal (and being given incentives to be loyal) and then never leaving.

4. Government sponsored colonization projects where in return for giving-up their land in Brazil (which would end-up being given to White farmers or barons) they're given a larger (agriculturally useful, but not overly fertile) area in Angola.
 

katchen

Banned
I can think of three possibilities. The first is that the rest of the Royal Family and the magnates of Brazil refuse to permit the King to leave Brazil to try to save Portugal from the rebels in 1822 in the first place, fearing that the result will be either rule from Lisbon at the expense of their interests or just what happened--independence without Angola and Mozambique and the rest of the Portuguese Empire. Even if Portugal were lost (and the King was overthrown in Portugal a few years later anyway), it is unlikely that the British would have gone to war with a Brazilian Portuguese Empire that was a fait accompli.
The other possibility that I see is that Brazil and Portugal cede Mozambique to the UK in return for the UK's tolerance of a Brazilian Angola. I suspect that the British were more worried about a Brazilian Mozambique anyway, since Mozambique, particularly Lourenco Marques,(now Maputo, the capital) was very close to the expanding British Cape and Natal colonies. Possibly cession of Macao and/or East Timor and/or Goa would get the British East India Company on board with the idea.
The third possibility is far more recent. A desperate Great Britain is willing to acquiesce to Brazilian takeover of Angola and Mozambique (and possibly the Belgian Congo, tying the two together over Lake Malawi since the King of Belgium collaborated with the Nazis) in return for Brazil joining the Allies in 1940 or 1941 at a time when it appeared impossible to get the United States involved. A move of this sort would require Great Britain to take official notice of Portugal's trade in strategic mercury with the Axis in violation of Portugal's neutrality and declare war on Portugal (and most likely Spain as well) leaving Brazil with the Cape Verde Islands, the Azores and Madiera as well. And while Brazil would not have much of a navy, the United States could help out as the "arsenal of democracy" under Lend-Lease there.
 
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