Brazil:The Fourth Axis Power!

Brazil during the WW2 era had a tumultous(sp?) time to say the least concerning its political parties.Amongst its German population there was a fierce loyalty to the Nazi Fatherland.In the OTL Brazil strangely enough sided with the Allies.However in the ATL say Brasil joins the Axis Powers,how does this affect the outcome of the war?If any.Peace.....
 
Brazil during the WW2 era had a tumultous(sp?) time to say the least concerning its political parties.Amongst its German population there was a fierce loyalty to the Nazi Fatherland.In the OTL Brazil strangely enough sided with the Allies.However in the ATL say Brasil joins the Axis Powers,how does this affect the outcome of the war?If any.Peace.....

It's stretch to say it is "strange" that Brazil sided with the Allies. Realistically, I think the best the Axis could have hoped for was a Brazil (and by extension an entire South American continent) that remained truly neutral. This would deprive the allies of a valuable ally and source of logistics in the Battle of the Atlantic, and a source of raw materials. Direct Brazilian military participation in the war was fairly limited and made possile only because the USA provided equipment and logistics.

If Brazil (or any South American nation) openly entered the war on the Axis side that government wouldn't last long. Either directly or by proxy the USA would intervene to change or hopelessly destabilize the government, and direct military action would make Brazilian ports and supply centers unusable to German ships, subs and aircraft. This would not require a major diversion of US assets. Plus, unlike the US, Germany or Japan would not have the ability to transport Brazilian troops to any active theatre. Also, it would be a stretch to call Brazil the "fourth Axis" power, given its miniscule industrial and military capability in 1942. Maybe somwhere behind Hungary and above Thailand is more like it.
 
However in the ATL say Brasil joins the Axis Powers,how does this affect the outcome of the war?

The US, Britain, Free French, Colombia, Uruguay, and Argentina invade Brazil and divide it amongst themselves. Amongst the hispanophone nations, Portuguese is banned and replaced with Spanish, and the now divided Brazil is effectively a colony of other nations, to the delight of other Latin American countries (hence, any attempt to reunite Brazil would be easily quashed).

. . . . .

OK, yes, I know, it's ASB. But so is Brazil joining the Axis. That, too, is ASB.
 

loughery111

Banned
how does this affect the outcome of the war?If any.Peace.....

It doesn't. The US devotes a small and otherwise hopelessly obsolescent naval force to strangling Brazilian commerce and a few hundred infiltrators to destabilizing the government, taking almost nothing away from the real war effort and quickly putting an end to Brazilian intervention on the part of the Axis, to be replaced by at least Allies-favorable neutrality.

Of course, there's no way in Hell that any Brazilian government would be stupidly suicidal enough to even CONSIDER this as a valid option, regardless of what the German-born and descended among their citizens do. Hell, if the latter start doing anything to destabilize the government, Brazil's as likely as not to bleat for US aid and join the war for real on their own.
 
Brazil during the WW2 era had a tumultous(sp?) time to say the least concerning its political parties.Amongst its German population there was a fierce loyalty to the Nazi Fatherland.In the OTL Brazil strangely enough sided with the Allies.However in the ATL say Brasil joins the Axis Powers,how does this affect the outcome of the war?If any.Peace.....
Okay, putting aside joining the Axis for "teh lols" or some random percieved insult and resulting incidents... What does it get Brazil? And what does Brazil loose in exchange?

On the gain side:
I'm not aware of any major territorial issues between Britain or France and Brazil... so Brazil has little to gain there.

Good-will of the (apparent) new masters of Europe with positive implications on future trade relations (trade here and now is kinda difficult with the RN in the way...)

On the loss side:
Immediate loss of a major market (the poms and frogs/yanks are not going to buy stuff off an enemy)

Going to war with Britian means facing the world's leading naval power. This means at best serious disruptions to seaborn trade and at worst a complete halt to it. Pre-June 1940 and post-June 1941 this is even worse (Britain and Frace in the former and Britain plus less than neutral US in the latter).

You potentially provoke the yanks into joining the war sooner than OTL.


So, in summery, you gain bugger all and get screwed over. Not a good idea at all... Only point it would make any sense is July-September 1940 when it looks like the poms are on the ropes and the war could be over in mere weeks...
 
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