Both east and west fall by 500 AD

ar-pharazon

Banned
So we know the WRE ceased to exist officially in 476 AD and the east held out for nearly another thousand years.

What if they both collapsed by 500 AD?

Maybe the Huns sack Constantinople earlier in the 4th century or the Visigoths do?

Maybe the Sassanids achieve a decisive breakthrough at the same time as the goths or Huns are besieging Constantinople.

If both Roman empires fall and Europe is divided between Germanic kingdoms and perhaps a resurgent Sassanid empire(that reaches the extent of the Achaemenids)-in the near east would what the consequences of this be?
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Maybe the Visigoths romp all the way into in Constantinople after winning the battle of Adrianople. I'm not sure if the city's walls were insurmountable yet. They might have been less than they later became, but still too much in terms of fortifications and garrisons for the Visigoths to have a chance.

An option might be though if the Visigoths after Adrianople ravage around Greece (as they did in OTL) but cross the Aegean or Dardanelles into Asia Minor, ravage it, and settle as foedorati there. Don't know how hard it would be for them to capture boats for crossing the straits.

The Huns taking Constantinople are also a potential option.

But, the walls could be stronger by them. And, even if the barbarian invaders take Constantinople, Thrace and Greece, if they are unable to cross into Asia Minor in strength, it is highly probable the ERE would make a comeback from Asia Minor, just like after the 4th Crusade and Latin Empire.


In fact, I suspect our timeline might be an outlier, inasmuch as the Vandals got the lucky break of developing a fleet to capture Africa (and from there, raid Italy). Probably in most TLs that diverge from 300 AD or so, the result is something more like the barbarians set up federati over all or almost all the European lands of the West and East Roman Empire, but the WRE lives on in Africa and the ERE lives on in Asia, and both empires may be able to make a partial comeback to Mediterranean parts of Europe later on.
 
If you move the visigoths East you need someone who can fill their place as the played a crucial role in the fall of the West. Without them you could see the vandals remaining in Spain, thus allowing a survival of the West. The Sassanids seemed particularly peaceful during the V century so if you can change this, we could see them helping the barbarians dismantling the empire before seeing a confrontation between the persians and the newly established kingdoms. Maybe in the fall of Rome we can involve tribes that historically played a marginal role during this period: the gepids and the ostrogoths.
 
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