Bosnia and Albania and Hungary real history questions

raharris1973

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1) Pre-Ottoman conquest, did Bosnia have a fairly evenly divided mix of Catholics, Orthodox and Bogomils?

2) Pre-Ottoman conquest, was Albania divided between Catholic and Orthodox? In what basic proportion?

3) Did the period of Ottoman rule help or hurt Hungarian Protestantism relative to Hungarian Catholicism?
 
1) Pre-Ottoman conquest, did Bosnia have a fairly evenly divided mix of Catholics, Orthodox and Bogomils?

2) Pre-Ottoman conquest, was Albania divided between Catholic and Orthodox? In what basic proportion?

3) Did the period of Ottoman rule help or hurt Hungarian Protestantism relative to Hungarian Catholicism?

1. Bosnians had have their Church with additional Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Many Orthodox Serbs also settled in Ottoman era increasing

2. Albania was near todays border of Montenegro Catholic along the coast. You may think off Shköder, Dürres... et. C.
The inlands and the south were as far as I know Orthodox Christian.

3. It did help in Ottoman Hungary and Transylvania if you look at it after 1526 when Louis II died. With the Habsburg taking over, Hungarian protestantism mighr get stronger like Bohemia but might as well face the same fate.
 

raharris1973

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-thanks.

Your answer to # 3 is also interesting. I suspected it might be so. Also, it might have been Hungary and Transylvania's position on the contested borderland with the Ottomans was the factor that allowed Unitarian Transylvania to be a beacon of religious tolerance.

#4 Did Orthodox Vlachs live in Transylvania before the Ottoman conquest, or only after? Was any share of the Vlach population Roman Catholic instead of Orthodox?
 
3) Did the period of Ottoman rule help or hurt Hungarian Protestantism relative to Hungarian Catholicism?

After Mohács, the Chatolic Church basically collapsed in Hungary, which made it easier to spread the new faith in Hungary. Furthermore, the Ottoman conquests, raids and the civil war made Hungary a living hellhole for most of the population. This was viewed by many as a punishment of God for the sins of the people. From this perspective, it was logical to many, that the Chatolic faith became rotten, and a religious renewal, the reformation is the answer. Furthermore, many barons and nobles, who opposed the Habsburg rule were eager to convert as well, especially in Transylvania, after John Sigismund (,who was unitarian btw.) and the diet of Torda proclaimed religious freedom for the 4 most prominent (Western) christian faiths, which were: Chatolicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism and Unitarianism.

So, as a short answer, the Ottoman era did help spreading protestantism in Hungary.

#4 Did Orthodox Vlachs live in Transylvania before the Ottoman conquest, or only after? Was any share of the Vlach population Roman Catholic instead of Orthodox?

The Vlach migration into Transylvania dates back to the 13th century, so yeah, they lived there in sizeable numbers, but they only became a majority after the Ottoman era. They mostly kept their Orthodox faith, but there were a few Chatolics as well, while after the Chatolic renewal, the majority converted to Eastern ("Greek") Chatolicism.
 
After Mohács, the Chatolic Church basically collapsed in Hungary, which made it easier to spread the new faith in Hungary. Furthermore, the Ottoman conquests, raids and the civil war made Hungary a living hellhole for most of the population. This was viewed by many as a punishment of God for the sins of the people. From this perspective, it was logical to many, that the Chatolic faith became rotten, and a religious renewal, the reformation is the answer. Furthermore, many barons and nobles, who opposed the Habsburg rule were eager to convert as well, especially in Transylvania, after John Sigismund (,who was unitarian btw.) and the diet of Torda proclaimed religious freedom for the 4 most prominent (Western) christian faiths, which were: Chatolicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism and Unitarianism.

So, as a short answer, the Ottoman era did help spreading protestantism in Hungary.

Totaly agree with your answer!

The Vlach migration into Transylvania dates back to the 13th century, so yeah, they lived there in sizeable numbers, but they only became a majority after the Ottoman era. They mostly kept their Orthodox faith, but there were a few Chatolics as well, while after the Chatolic renewal, the majority converted to Eastern ("Greek") Chatolicism.

Totaly disagree with your answer!

There were "Vlach" population, communities, and political formation long before 13th century in Transylvania (which wasn't a waste just waiting for Hungarians to migrate in) ;). There was a continuous movement of people (yes, a migration) both to and from Transylvania. Both Romanian Principalities of Moldavia and Muntenia (Wallachia/Țara Românească/Zemli Ungrovlahiskoi) were created in their "consecrated" form by nobles coming from Transylvania and under (and sometimes against) Hungarian patronage at the end of 13th century...

So yes, the Romanian Orthodox lived both before and after the Ottoman conquest (which might favorized them slightly by depopulating some regions in the western planes where they were invited by the Hungarian nobles [and later the Habsburg governement] to colonize the land in search of manpower [alongside with other nationalities too: Germans, Checz, Slovacs, Croatians, Serbs, Ruthenians, etc.] - similarly on how the Wallachian plane of Baragan was populated by the Romanians themselves).

Yet, I do not want to debate too much this aspect as I know you are very entrenched in the Hungarian historiography which... you know what I want to say about... :)

Cheers!

PS EDIT: To not be misunderstood, I do not disagree with the entirety of your statement. The part with Romanians converting to Catholicism and, later to Eastern rite is correct and I agree with. The nobility converted to Catholicism to keep its privileges (especially during and after King Louis the Great) while the peasantry remained Orthodox. Later, a good part of the Romanians accepted the "Union with Rome", while another part remained Orthodox.
 
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After Mohács, the Chatolic Church basically collapsed in Hungary, which made it easier to spread the new faith in Hungary. Furthermore, the Ottoman conquests, raids and the civil war made Hungary a living hellhole for most of the population. This was viewed by many as a punishment of God for the sins of the people. From this perspective, it was logical to many, that the Chatolic faith became rotten, and a religious renewal, the reformation is the answer. Furthermore, many barons and nobles, who opposed the Habsburg rule were eager to convert as well, especially in Transylvania, after John Sigismund (,who was unitarian btw.) and the diet of Torda proclaimed religious freedom for the 4 most prominent (Western) christian faiths, which were: Chatolicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism and Unitarianism.

So, as a short answer, the Ottoman era did help spreading protestantism in Hungary.



The Vlach migration into Transylvania dates back to the 13th century, so yeah, they lived there in sizeable numbers, but they only became a majority after the Ottoman era. They mostly kept their Orthodox faith, but there were a few Chatolics as well, while after the Chatolic renewal, the majority converted to Eastern ("Greek") Chatolicism.

Regarding protestantism in Hungary I want to point out 2 facts:
1. Transyvania was always ready to support hungarian protestants - even militarily which resulted in written guarantees of the rights of the protestants by the Habsburgs

2. In the 17th century most of the kingdom of Hungary was recatholised thanks to the efforts of hungarian magnates (Péter Pázmány) and the hungarian catholic church. Jesuits were important. This was far from complete but catholics became a majority again and this was still the era of Ottoman occupation.
 
Totaly disagree with your answer!

There were "Vlach" population, communities, and political formation long before 13th century in Transylvania (which wasn't a waste just waiting for Hungarians to migrate in) ;). There was a continuous movement of people (yes, a migration) both to and from Transylvania. Both Romanian Principalities of Moldavia and Muntenia (Wallachia/Țara Românească/Zemli Ungrovlahiskoi) were created in their "consecrated" form by nobles coming from Transylvania and under (and sometimes against) Hungarian patronage at the end of 13th century...

So yes, the Romanian Orthodox lived both before and after the Ottoman conquest (which might favorized them slightly by depopulating some regions in the western planes where they were invited by the Hungarian nobles [and later the Habsburg governement] to colonize the land in search of manpower [alongside with other nationalities too: Germans, Checz, Slovacs, Croatians, Serbs, Ruthenians, etc.] - similarly on how the Wallachian plane of Baragan was populated by the Romanians themselves).

Yet, I do not want to debate too much this aspect as I know you are very entrenched in the Hungarian historiography which... you know what I want to say about... :)

Cheers!
First of all, sorry I miswrote the century, it's the 12th century I wanted to say. Also, it's not the century, inwhich they began to move into Transylvania, but the century, inwhich the Vlach presence is certainly documented. Earlier presence is possible, but is undocumented.



If you still disagree, then in the end it always melts down to the Daco-Roman vs Balkanic origin theories, which probably won't be settled in the near future. So yeah we should rather not bother arguing over it.
 
2. Albania was near todays border of Montenegro Catholic along the coast. You may think off Shköder, Dürres... et. C.
The inlands and the south were as far as I know Orthodox Christian.

I think Albania has historically been majority Catholic- then again, religion in Albania, including Orthodoxy vs Catholicism could be pretty relative.

That aside, the isolated northern mountaneous areas of Albania proper are largely Catholic as far as the Christian population goes (A catholic priest first codified the traditional Albanian blood honor customs). Likewise, Catholicsm is represented in the northern areas of Albanian settlement such as Kosovo and Macedonia. This is best illustrated by the example of Mother Theresa.

As a side note, Italy has a Italo Albanian Byzantine church consisting of Albanian refuseniks who left during the Ottoman guided conversions.
 
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