Well, I mean they could try running as an elected official, and then pull a Nappy III aha.
Born a King; The Life and Times of John the Posthumous
- Thread starter Space Oddity
- Start date
Well, I mean they could try running as an elected official, and then pull a Nappy III aha.
Well it's between none and ... none. I actually think it is less than 1% of the population according to some survey.
Doesnt that Spanish Bourbon have a decent amount of support?
ROFLOLMAO.
Sorry, but the monarchy restauration in France will happen about a week after the 13 colonies submit again to their rightfull king and Lord...... and last for about the same time before the new king gets a first hand view of the people's razor...
longsword14
Banned
He can be as foolish as he wants, just get some military prowess and be a little less generous with the gold. That would be far better than OTL.
1337: Scotland
1337: A PARCEL OF ROGUES
"...With the death of Sir Andrew Murray and in the absence of its young king, the Bruce cause quickly floundered once again. Scotland was without a Guardian, unless one counted the still defiant John Stewart stalking about the hinterlands and waging a war against the English and "the disloyal"--an increasingly broad group of Scots. Despite the rapacious behavior of his men, "John of the Bloody Eyes"[1] was finding his reputation increasingly burnished as the one remaining Scottish commander who had never been defeated by the English. That this was, as Froissart would point out later, because he made certain to never engage them in pitched battle[2] was immaterial--the Scots needed a hero, and the Steward neatly stepped into role.
"The Steward and his allies were only one of several factions of anti-English Scots--another group had gathered around Murray's widow, the formidable Christina Bruce. Youngest sister of King Robert, Sir Andrew was the second husband she had buried, though most likely the dearer of them. Still, her first husband, Sir Christopher Seton, was dear enough for her to have a chapel built at Dumfries for him[3]. It was here that she organized the grand council "to discuss matters of import". It was here that the Murrays and their allies met with the Steward's supporters, as well as representatives of a few of the other minor factions--Alasdair Mac Domhnall, there to speak for the Islay Lord of the Isles[4], several deacons in the service of William Bell, bishop-elect of St. Andrews whose appointment was being blocked by the English[5], and a scattering of clan chieftians. Also there were the Murrays French allies, to pledge their support and offer incentives for the hoped for united front against the English...
"Matters immediately derailed, first over a series of property disputes, and then over the weightier matter of King John's succession. A young man, far from his kingdom, and married to a foreign princess about whom his subjects knew nothing, the chance that John might die abroad with no heir of his body weighed heavily on his partisans. His only remaining legitimate siblings were two sisters--one, Margaret, too young, the other, Matilda likely past child-bearing years, apparently married to an inappropriately minor landowner during the low point of her father's fortunes, and with only young daughters for offspring to boot[6].
"For Christina the answer to all this was simple. Young Margaret would be the heir with her future (and presently unknown) husband serving as king. If King John Bruce should pass before Margaret was of age, or even worse, Margaret should predecease her younger brother, then the throne would pass to the one surviving bastard son of Robert Bruce, Sir Neil of Carrick, who would meanwhile serve as the present Guardian of Scotland. Thus would the crown of Scotland be preserved in 'the Bruce's heroic line'.
"John Stewart would have none of that. Christina's plan was wholly unsuitable, he declared relying on a child completely in the control of Christina's own household[7], and a bastard likewise heavily in her control. The Steward had his own candidate for a potential heir and Guardian, one Thomas Bruce, the most senior male member of the family, who was, as it happened, married to a cousin of his[8]. Despite the fact that Thomas was almost certainly Christina's nephew[9], she was no more enthusiastic about the Steward's plan than he was about hers, holding Thomas to be a "middling man". The general concern seems to have been that the Steward was setting forward a Guardian and potential king who was utterly in his power. The Steward seems to have been aware of these objections and scoffed at them, noting that Thomas was a man grown with children of his own. He went so far as to accuse Christina of plotting a path to the throne for her own children. He may even have been right, but it was hardly the thing to say at that moment. Neither was his suggestion that Neil of Carrick was not actually Robert's son at all, which seems to have lead to the final argument that ended the council. The Scots were not united, and indeed seemed more divided than ever, with Neil of Carrick declaring he would be damned before he followed the Steward's council in anything. John Stewart also seems to have made a poor impression on the Islays who allied with Christina's growing bloc... Still, the Steward seems to have largely advantaged by his attending, as it only added to his burgeoning reputation as a Scot leader of substance..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
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[1] IOTL John's half-brother Robert was notorious for his bloodshot eyes which appears to have been caused by some congenital defect. As Robert spent much of his later life realizing war with England was a fool's game, they were used to criticize him for weakness--TTL's John's similar defect is taken to show that he is singularly bloody-minded. Medieval time is not a time of
[2] Despite this criticism, this method was historically the Scots' most effective tactic throughout their wars with the English, something John is well aware of.
[3] This is true IOTL as well. Christina was sent to a nunnery by the English after Seton's death, and only got out after her brother's victory. Which she followed by marrying the much younger Andrew Murray.
[4] Alasdair may be Iain mac Aonghais Mac Dhòmhnuil's (aka John of Islay) brother, though it's tough to be sure.
[5] Bell, IOTL and ITTL, was at Avignon around this period, trying to get them to accept his election. He never did, and ultimately resigned his position to allow the Pope's favored candidate in.
[6] Matilda Bruce did not leave much records behind her--however her two daughters and their descendants were apparently never seriously considered as heirs throughout this period.
[7] This seems to have been the case IOTL, where Margaret's husband would be one William de Moravia (aka Murray), Earl of Sutherland.
[8] This was also the case for Thomas IOTL, where he was a firm supporter of Robert Stewart.
[9] Thomas' parentage remains unknown--his most likely father is probably Robert Bruce's brother Thomas who was executed by the English, though Edward Bruce and Robert's bastard Sir Robert Bruce have both been suggested, though are both somewhat unlikely.
"...With the death of Sir Andrew Murray and in the absence of its young king, the Bruce cause quickly floundered once again. Scotland was without a Guardian, unless one counted the still defiant John Stewart stalking about the hinterlands and waging a war against the English and "the disloyal"--an increasingly broad group of Scots. Despite the rapacious behavior of his men, "John of the Bloody Eyes"[1] was finding his reputation increasingly burnished as the one remaining Scottish commander who had never been defeated by the English. That this was, as Froissart would point out later, because he made certain to never engage them in pitched battle[2] was immaterial--the Scots needed a hero, and the Steward neatly stepped into role.
"The Steward and his allies were only one of several factions of anti-English Scots--another group had gathered around Murray's widow, the formidable Christina Bruce. Youngest sister of King Robert, Sir Andrew was the second husband she had buried, though most likely the dearer of them. Still, her first husband, Sir Christopher Seton, was dear enough for her to have a chapel built at Dumfries for him[3]. It was here that she organized the grand council "to discuss matters of import". It was here that the Murrays and their allies met with the Steward's supporters, as well as representatives of a few of the other minor factions--Alasdair Mac Domhnall, there to speak for the Islay Lord of the Isles[4], several deacons in the service of William Bell, bishop-elect of St. Andrews whose appointment was being blocked by the English[5], and a scattering of clan chieftians. Also there were the Murrays French allies, to pledge their support and offer incentives for the hoped for united front against the English...
"Matters immediately derailed, first over a series of property disputes, and then over the weightier matter of King John's succession. A young man, far from his kingdom, and married to a foreign princess about whom his subjects knew nothing, the chance that John might die abroad with no heir of his body weighed heavily on his partisans. His only remaining legitimate siblings were two sisters--one, Margaret, too young, the other, Matilda likely past child-bearing years, apparently married to an inappropriately minor landowner during the low point of her father's fortunes, and with only young daughters for offspring to boot[6].
"For Christina the answer to all this was simple. Young Margaret would be the heir with her future (and presently unknown) husband serving as king. If King John Bruce should pass before Margaret was of age, or even worse, Margaret should predecease her younger brother, then the throne would pass to the one surviving bastard son of Robert Bruce, Sir Neil of Carrick, who would meanwhile serve as the present Guardian of Scotland. Thus would the crown of Scotland be preserved in 'the Bruce's heroic line'.
"John Stewart would have none of that. Christina's plan was wholly unsuitable, he declared relying on a child completely in the control of Christina's own household[7], and a bastard likewise heavily in her control. The Steward had his own candidate for a potential heir and Guardian, one Thomas Bruce, the most senior male member of the family, who was, as it happened, married to a cousin of his[8]. Despite the fact that Thomas was almost certainly Christina's nephew[9], she was no more enthusiastic about the Steward's plan than he was about hers, holding Thomas to be a "middling man". The general concern seems to have been that the Steward was setting forward a Guardian and potential king who was utterly in his power. The Steward seems to have been aware of these objections and scoffed at them, noting that Thomas was a man grown with children of his own. He went so far as to accuse Christina of plotting a path to the throne for her own children. He may even have been right, but it was hardly the thing to say at that moment. Neither was his suggestion that Neil of Carrick was not actually Robert's son at all, which seems to have lead to the final argument that ended the council. The Scots were not united, and indeed seemed more divided than ever, with Neil of Carrick declaring he would be damned before he followed the Steward's council in anything. John Stewart also seems to have made a poor impression on the Islays who allied with Christina's growing bloc... Still, the Steward seems to have largely advantaged by his attending, as it only added to his burgeoning reputation as a Scot leader of substance..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] IOTL John's half-brother Robert was notorious for his bloodshot eyes which appears to have been caused by some congenital defect. As Robert spent much of his later life realizing war with England was a fool's game, they were used to criticize him for weakness--TTL's John's similar defect is taken to show that he is singularly bloody-minded. Medieval time is not a time of
[2] Despite this criticism, this method was historically the Scots' most effective tactic throughout their wars with the English, something John is well aware of.
[3] This is true IOTL as well. Christina was sent to a nunnery by the English after Seton's death, and only got out after her brother's victory. Which she followed by marrying the much younger Andrew Murray.
[4] Alasdair may be Iain mac Aonghais Mac Dhòmhnuil's (aka John of Islay) brother, though it's tough to be sure.
[5] Bell, IOTL and ITTL, was at Avignon around this period, trying to get them to accept his election. He never did, and ultimately resigned his position to allow the Pope's favored candidate in.
[6] Matilda Bruce did not leave much records behind her--however her two daughters and their descendants were apparently never seriously considered as heirs throughout this period.
[7] This seems to have been the case IOTL, where Margaret's husband would be one William de Moravia (aka Murray), Earl of Sutherland.
[8] This was also the case for Thomas IOTL, where he was a firm supporter of Robert Stewart.
[9] Thomas' parentage remains unknown--his most likely father is probably Robert Bruce's brother Thomas who was executed by the English, though Edward Bruce and Robert's bastard Sir Robert Bruce have both been suggested, though are both somewhat unlikely.
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It was slightly better IOTL, where Robert Stewart's clear claim and the fact that most everyone who had seniority on him was now either dead or imprisoned left him Guardian.
But only slightly, because Robert immediately got to work abusing his situation, to the point where sidelining the Stewarts became one David's preoccupations when he finally got released.
There is a good chart on wikipedia for the Welfs and Brunswick-Lüneburg duchies.
Although I don't understand the need to cut your country in four to five frigging subduchies. And don't get me started about dividing mere cities.
Don't let me get started about the HRE. I'd just rage at the stupid.
I don't think they're trying to take all of Scotland merely assert overlordship and install a puppet on the throne
1337: Finances!
1337: THAT'LL COST YOU
"...By the 14th century, the difficulties of paying for wars had become a frequently destabilizing problem for most states... The most dramatic example would prove to be England and France during the so-called 'Long War' that would dominate the adult reign of John I of France... By 1337, John was facing potential humiliation as a proposed invasion of England stalled due to lack of funds. John's problems were worsened by efforts to restore French coinage to its former value begun only a few years earlier which made the simplest solution, coin devaluation, impracticable[1]. In need of a quick solution, John attempted to use the 'tenth' a levy on Church moneys nominally for crusading to pay for the war. Unfortunately, this required the assent of the Pope, which he refused to give. Indeed, reportedly, John was told by the pontiff that he had little faith in France's victory in either Scotland or an English invasion[2]...
"Prince Edward likewise looked into using the tenth for his own purposes, and was likewise rebuffed--however, he simply went on with it despite the Papacy's refusal, assisted by distance and a loyal clergy. John was furious and by most accounts, had to be talked down from simply following Edward's example by the Duke of Anjou[3]. While Anjou succeeded in keeping the simmering conflict between the Papacy and the French crown from boiling over (for now at least), this still left the problem of producing the funds...
"Meanwhile, England's prospects were hardly rosy--the income from the tenth mostly went into paying debts incurred from the ongoing invasion of Scotland, leaving the matters of defense and counterattack up in the air. As the Prince used contacts with Italian bankers to set the stage for what would be one of the most monumental defaults in history[4] and pawned those of his jewels he could[5], he looked into another means of acquiring money. So it was that in 1337, the Prince froze shipments of wool into Flanders, all part of a money-making scheme that would quickly produce effects far beyond what its originator had imagined[6]..."
"Finances in the Late Medieval Era" William A. Worrington (1967)
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[1] Coin devaluation had been practiced so often in the preceding years, both IOTL and ITTL, as to make an attempt to return the previous value of the currency not only popular, but necessary.
[2] Philip VI was similarly rebuffed IOTL.
[3] Philip seems to have wanted to keep good relations with the Papacy IOTL, despite the difficulties; his ITTL self agrees, and so uses a good portion of his remaining influence to talk John down from the ledge.
[4] Obviously, a tale for another time but simply put Edward faces the same problem he faced IOTL for funding in the long run
[5] IOTL these would include the Crown Jewels.
[6] And once again, more on this in the future, including the general gist of Prince Edward's BRILLIANT PLAN to finance the entire war off of wool sales...
"...By the 14th century, the difficulties of paying for wars had become a frequently destabilizing problem for most states... The most dramatic example would prove to be England and France during the so-called 'Long War' that would dominate the adult reign of John I of France... By 1337, John was facing potential humiliation as a proposed invasion of England stalled due to lack of funds. John's problems were worsened by efforts to restore French coinage to its former value begun only a few years earlier which made the simplest solution, coin devaluation, impracticable[1]. In need of a quick solution, John attempted to use the 'tenth' a levy on Church moneys nominally for crusading to pay for the war. Unfortunately, this required the assent of the Pope, which he refused to give. Indeed, reportedly, John was told by the pontiff that he had little faith in France's victory in either Scotland or an English invasion[2]...
"Prince Edward likewise looked into using the tenth for his own purposes, and was likewise rebuffed--however, he simply went on with it despite the Papacy's refusal, assisted by distance and a loyal clergy. John was furious and by most accounts, had to be talked down from simply following Edward's example by the Duke of Anjou[3]. While Anjou succeeded in keeping the simmering conflict between the Papacy and the French crown from boiling over (for now at least), this still left the problem of producing the funds...
"Meanwhile, England's prospects were hardly rosy--the income from the tenth mostly went into paying debts incurred from the ongoing invasion of Scotland, leaving the matters of defense and counterattack up in the air. As the Prince used contacts with Italian bankers to set the stage for what would be one of the most monumental defaults in history[4] and pawned those of his jewels he could[5], he looked into another means of acquiring money. So it was that in 1337, the Prince froze shipments of wool into Flanders, all part of a money-making scheme that would quickly produce effects far beyond what its originator had imagined[6]..."
"Finances in the Late Medieval Era" William A. Worrington (1967)
------------------------------------------------------
[1] Coin devaluation had been practiced so often in the preceding years, both IOTL and ITTL, as to make an attempt to return the previous value of the currency not only popular, but necessary.
[2] Philip VI was similarly rebuffed IOTL.
[3] Philip seems to have wanted to keep good relations with the Papacy IOTL, despite the difficulties; his ITTL self agrees, and so uses a good portion of his remaining influence to talk John down from the ledge.
[4] Obviously, a tale for another time but simply put Edward faces the same problem he faced IOTL for funding in the long run
[5] IOTL these would include the Crown Jewels.
[6] And once again, more on this in the future, including the general gist of Prince Edward's BRILLIANT PLAN to finance the entire war off of wool sales...
As briliant as the OTL one?
The view of fiscal history in the lens of the HYW era is always interesting, since the heavy disproportion between France and England in term of territory and population regarding the potential tax revenue pretty much ensured French victory in the end. But here with a less long and devastative, I mind that it wouldn't allow yet enough time for the French system to be as efficiently reformed as it was under Charles V IOTL with the transition of tax levies from an occasional basis to a permanent one (if my memory of what I read over the Hundred Years War is still correct).
Bwa-ha-ha!
And that's all you'll get from me now.
Well that was always the thing wasn't it? England usually had the more efficient tax collection, but with a much smaller base, so it often found itself replaying the same damn scenario over the next 116 years, a quick tactical victory followed by a strategic quagmire that upended it all. It was theoretically possible for them to win a war--the problem being that war was one Edward just refused to fight.