Well, remember, Gilbert's traumatized older brother is also an Earl, albeit now not quite as rich or well-connected as Gilbert. And that's not counting the younger brothers and the various sisters who are marrying into good families.
Born a King; The Life and Times of John the Posthumous
- Thread starter Space Oddity
- Start date
Well, remember, Gilbert's traumatized older brother is also an Earl, albeit now not quite as rich or well-connected as Gilbert. And that's not counting the younger brothers and the various sisters who are marrying into good families.
Well, that's ironic, since the Le Despensers (les dépensiers ?) were the cause of Edward II's downfall IOTL, IIRC.
They didn't do to badly IOTL after matters were finished, believe it or not. The English aristocracy had a surprising ability to bounce back from disaster. The Mortimers, for example, went from personas non grata to 'Royal in-laws'.
He's been executed ITTL as well. By Gilbert's late father-in-law, during the Earl of Kent's Rising.
Doubtless, this will be among the things that Gloucester and his wife don't talk about.
1335: Scotland
1335: 'WE RISE TO FIGHT AGAIN...'
"Halidon Hill had seen the Scots' army destroyed, along with the latest Guardian of the realm. Prince Edward is held to have said that now the matter of the Scots that had hounded his grandfather and father was finished, and England at last victorious. Scotland was conquered.
"The conquest would last a handful of months.
"Right from the start, victory began the same problems for Balliol that he had previously--garrisons stretched thin while his supporters, once they imagined they were secure, began to quarrel for lands and honors. Indeed, this time, it was far worse than the previous, for he had to contend with his rapacious brother-in-law, pressing for England's advantage and a bevy of English nobles seeking their own. Frequently the latter operated under the former's protection, most notoriously Ralph de Stafford, a favorite of Prince Edward's who would take advantage of that royal protection to enrich himself throughout his long and blood-soaked career. In Scotland, this would take the form of kidnapping young Isabella MacDuff, heir to the Earldom of Fife, and claiming her for his bride[1]. While it would be inaccurate to call this act the spark that set off the next round of rebellion, it was one more bit of smouldering discontent.
"If there was any one thing that could be called the spark, it was a man--John Stewart, half-brother to the late Robert, and new Great Steward of Scotland, who left his brother's deathbed with a lifelong desire to see the English humbled. As opposed to Robert, he was not in the line of succession, but he was the undisputed heir to the Stewart holdings, and a brave and impetuous youth who would grow into one of the Scots' great captains. In late June, he would launch a seaborne attack on the Castle Dunoon, recently surrendered to Balliol forces, which would fall to Stewart virtually without struggle. A general revolt in Stewart lands began, as they rallied to their young lord[2].
"This was not the end of matters. The Earl of Moray returned from his latest trip to France, leaving the young King there, and returning with arms and funds that he used to start a separate rebellion in the southwest. As Balliol's kingdom fell apart once again, the two young lords set themselves up as the joint Guardians of the realm[3]. As for Balliol, he called for his brother-in-law's assistance, while sending his wife and young son, the Prince John, to England for safety. Soon, "King" Edward was the ruler of little more than Galloway.
"Unfortunately, for the Balliol cause, Prince Edward was not in a position to provide immediate aid. Parliament had only grudgingly provided the funds for the previous years expedition, and the winter of 1334 had been harsh and cruel[4]. His request for more money was, if not refused, then granted on the most limited basis forcing the Prince to borrow from the Bardi to fill out his coffers[5]. While it would take him months, that November, he would enter Scotland with roughly 13,000 men, the largest army he would ever lead into that kingdom[6]. There, he would unite with his brother-in-law's more meagre forces, in preparations for his most devastating attack on Scotland yet..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
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[1] Obviously, this is right up Stafford's alley--but sadly, it is also fairly typical for poor Isabella MacDuff, Countess of Fire, who spent most of her life being married to up-and-comers, who would frequently die, and was pressured by her brother-in-law, the notorious Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, to give up her title to him.
[2] IOTL, Robert Stewart managed a similar uprising against the English.
[3] This odd state of affairs occurred IOTL as well.
[4] Edward is having a small bit of luck here--IOTL this winter covered his first campaigning period to deal with the uprising.
[5] Edward's borrowing from the Bardis is IOTL.
[6] Edward managed a similarly-sized army IOTL, though on a different timescale.
"Halidon Hill had seen the Scots' army destroyed, along with the latest Guardian of the realm. Prince Edward is held to have said that now the matter of the Scots that had hounded his grandfather and father was finished, and England at last victorious. Scotland was conquered.
"The conquest would last a handful of months.
"Right from the start, victory began the same problems for Balliol that he had previously--garrisons stretched thin while his supporters, once they imagined they were secure, began to quarrel for lands and honors. Indeed, this time, it was far worse than the previous, for he had to contend with his rapacious brother-in-law, pressing for England's advantage and a bevy of English nobles seeking their own. Frequently the latter operated under the former's protection, most notoriously Ralph de Stafford, a favorite of Prince Edward's who would take advantage of that royal protection to enrich himself throughout his long and blood-soaked career. In Scotland, this would take the form of kidnapping young Isabella MacDuff, heir to the Earldom of Fife, and claiming her for his bride[1]. While it would be inaccurate to call this act the spark that set off the next round of rebellion, it was one more bit of smouldering discontent.
"If there was any one thing that could be called the spark, it was a man--John Stewart, half-brother to the late Robert, and new Great Steward of Scotland, who left his brother's deathbed with a lifelong desire to see the English humbled. As opposed to Robert, he was not in the line of succession, but he was the undisputed heir to the Stewart holdings, and a brave and impetuous youth who would grow into one of the Scots' great captains. In late June, he would launch a seaborne attack on the Castle Dunoon, recently surrendered to Balliol forces, which would fall to Stewart virtually without struggle. A general revolt in Stewart lands began, as they rallied to their young lord[2].
"This was not the end of matters. The Earl of Moray returned from his latest trip to France, leaving the young King there, and returning with arms and funds that he used to start a separate rebellion in the southwest. As Balliol's kingdom fell apart once again, the two young lords set themselves up as the joint Guardians of the realm[3]. As for Balliol, he called for his brother-in-law's assistance, while sending his wife and young son, the Prince John, to England for safety. Soon, "King" Edward was the ruler of little more than Galloway.
"Unfortunately, for the Balliol cause, Prince Edward was not in a position to provide immediate aid. Parliament had only grudgingly provided the funds for the previous years expedition, and the winter of 1334 had been harsh and cruel[4]. His request for more money was, if not refused, then granted on the most limited basis forcing the Prince to borrow from the Bardi to fill out his coffers[5]. While it would take him months, that November, he would enter Scotland with roughly 13,000 men, the largest army he would ever lead into that kingdom[6]. There, he would unite with his brother-in-law's more meagre forces, in preparations for his most devastating attack on Scotland yet..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
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[1] Obviously, this is right up Stafford's alley--but sadly, it is also fairly typical for poor Isabella MacDuff, Countess of Fire, who spent most of her life being married to up-and-comers, who would frequently die, and was pressured by her brother-in-law, the notorious Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, to give up her title to him.
[2] IOTL, Robert Stewart managed a similar uprising against the English.
[3] This odd state of affairs occurred IOTL as well.
[4] Edward is having a small bit of luck here--IOTL this winter covered his first campaigning period to deal with the uprising.
[5] Edward's borrowing from the Bardis is IOTL.
[6] Edward managed a similarly-sized army IOTL, though on a different timescale.
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1335-6: Scotland
1335-6: "...AND FALL AGAIN, AND RISE AGAIN, TO FIGHT ON ANEW..."
"The planned joint attack on the Bruce loyalists was an ambitious design, one that bears all the marks of Edward Balliol's simultaneously keen and fervent military mind. The Anglo-Galloway forces were to split in two, with one force under the Prince's leadership would start from Carlisle, and march north, while a second force under Balliol's leadership would march west from Berwick. The two armies were to meet at Clyde, where they would be joined by a third force recruited from Ireland[1].
"Such at least was the plan, though they instead met at Glasgow, and the third army never materialized that year due to recruitment problems in Ireland. Not that it would have served much purpose, as the two forces never fought a pitched battle. Instead, they proceeded virtually unimpeded through Scottish territory, looting and spreading terror. The Earls of Stafford and Gloucester both reportedly declared it the most pointless campaign they had ever fought in during their long military careers--arguably quite a just verdict. For all the terror the English would spread throughout the fall of 1335, and into 1336, it did very little to defeat the Scots.
"That honor would go to the Scots themselves. The dual Guardianship of Moray and Stewart was a highly unusual form of government which would have required great diplomatic skill to keep afloat. As they were a pair of impetuous youths (especially Stewart), this was not something in high supply. Thus, even as the English looted, the two Guardians feuded with each other, each working to seize as much royal income as possible while accusing the other of banditry. Moray was caught during a raid in late July, while Stewart had by this time made himself so odious to any but his nearest partisans that as Froissart put it 'his word was naught beyond his own lands, and even then only those of them that he held'. This left the perennially opportunistic Earl of Atholl as de facto leader of the Scottish rebels, and Atholl swiftly reverted to type, contacting his father-in-law to make peace, and bringing a dozen or so Scottish nobles with him[2]. Once again, the Scottish cause seemed all but lost. And once again it revived.
"A meeting of the battered remnants of Bruce loyalists in Dumbarton--save for Stewart, who was either not invited or refused to come--chose a new Guardian, Sir Andrew Murray, who had held the title previously, before being captured by the English. As opposed to many in his situation, Sir Andrew, who was the late King Robert's brother-in-law[3], had never submitted to Balliol and the Prince of Wales, even in captivity. Despite this, Sir Andrew had been allowed to ransom himself, a move the young Prince would come to greatly regret[4]...
"Murray started by offering the Prince a truce. Facing diminishing resources, an increasing spectre of French involvement, and a conflict that was beginning to resemble a morass, the Prince took it, even though it left his brother-in-law and his supporters to hang by themselves. It also did nothing to restrain John Stewart, who still sulkily did not regard Sir Andrew Murray as the true Guardian of Scotland. Balliol seems to have paid little regard to the former matter and a great deal to the latter. Most likely, he considered the rebels on their last legs, and saw their refusal to deal with him at the moment as a face-saving device, while seeing Stewart as 'a wolf on two legs' whose disposal would not only strengthen his own cause, but win him general praise.
"Unfortunately for Balliol, once again internal divisions returned to plague his followers in light of victory. With Stewart a rebel and outlaw by the Balliol line, a new Great Steward was needed--Balliol selected the Earl of Mar, likely under pressure from Prince Edward, who saw Mar as reliable and trustworthy[5]. Unfortunately, this offended the Earl of Atholl, who had hoped to gain the position himself, despite his opportunistic past. While the extent of his disenchantment remains unknown, it was at the very least exceedingly demoralizing for Atholl, and did nothing to shore up his always uncertain loyalties. Being placed under Mar as the latter was sent out to 'bring the rebel John of Lauder[6] to heel', likewise did little to help...
"Despite the claims of Mar and Atholl, the campaign against Stewart served as little more than an excuse to murder, loot and intimidate Bruce loyalists in the region. Eventually the pair's efforts brought them to Kildrummy Castle--Sir Andrew's own home, presently under the care of his formidable wife, Christina Bruce[7]. That redoubtable lady took up the castle's defense and succeeded in holding Mar and Atholl off. Murray's response to the siege was to break off the peace talks and race to Kildrummy's rescue. After some debate, Mar left the siege in Atholl's hands and rushed off to face Murray's small force. The resulting clash at the River Dee ended in Mar's utter defeat--his men were scattered, and the Earl killed fighting beneath an oak tree[8]. Atholl's response to this was to break off the siege and take his wife and family to the island fortress of Lochindorb[9], where he would spend the next year alternating between calling Balliol and the English for help and offering to surrender to the Scots.
"In Galloway, Balliol and his queen were left in the great ruin of Roxburgh, which Prince Edward had begun to repair only to abruptly stop. The half-repaired ruin was in many ways the perfect symbol of his Scottish war, left off incomplete even as it was begun as the Prince found himself preoccupied with other matters..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
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[1] Balliol reportedly assisted Edward's plans IOTL, though this author is exaggerating his contribution.
[2] Moray and Robert Stewart's OTL uprising collapsed in a similar manner, though Robert had the sense to surrender when things had definitively turned against him.
[3] Sir Andrew's marriage to Robert Bruce's sister Christina is quite interesting. He was her second husband--many accounts have her twenty years older than him, with the result that Sir Andrew's children are frequently credited to an unknown first wife. However, given certain other inconsistencies in accounts of Christina, among them a phantom third marriage that proceeded the other two which her contemporaries don't seem to be aware of, it is most likely that there were two Bruce sisters of that name, and Sir Andrew married the younger one, thus making his mysterious first wife nothing more than an error of modern chroniclers.
[4] Murray was likewise ransomed by Edward IOTL. It was a mistake, and one Edward learned not to repeat.
[5] IOTL, Atholl was named Steward, Balliol not having a dearth of reliable followers.
[6] Stewart's father was also known as Walter of Lauder.
[7] Christina likewise defended her husband's castle IOTL, not the only woman who would do this in this era.
[8] IOTL, it was Atholl who perished beneath the oak tree.
[9] IOTL, Lochindorb served as a refuge for Atholl's wife and her retinue.
"The planned joint attack on the Bruce loyalists was an ambitious design, one that bears all the marks of Edward Balliol's simultaneously keen and fervent military mind. The Anglo-Galloway forces were to split in two, with one force under the Prince's leadership would start from Carlisle, and march north, while a second force under Balliol's leadership would march west from Berwick. The two armies were to meet at Clyde, where they would be joined by a third force recruited from Ireland[1].
"Such at least was the plan, though they instead met at Glasgow, and the third army never materialized that year due to recruitment problems in Ireland. Not that it would have served much purpose, as the two forces never fought a pitched battle. Instead, they proceeded virtually unimpeded through Scottish territory, looting and spreading terror. The Earls of Stafford and Gloucester both reportedly declared it the most pointless campaign they had ever fought in during their long military careers--arguably quite a just verdict. For all the terror the English would spread throughout the fall of 1335, and into 1336, it did very little to defeat the Scots.
"That honor would go to the Scots themselves. The dual Guardianship of Moray and Stewart was a highly unusual form of government which would have required great diplomatic skill to keep afloat. As they were a pair of impetuous youths (especially Stewart), this was not something in high supply. Thus, even as the English looted, the two Guardians feuded with each other, each working to seize as much royal income as possible while accusing the other of banditry. Moray was caught during a raid in late July, while Stewart had by this time made himself so odious to any but his nearest partisans that as Froissart put it 'his word was naught beyond his own lands, and even then only those of them that he held'. This left the perennially opportunistic Earl of Atholl as de facto leader of the Scottish rebels, and Atholl swiftly reverted to type, contacting his father-in-law to make peace, and bringing a dozen or so Scottish nobles with him[2]. Once again, the Scottish cause seemed all but lost. And once again it revived.
"A meeting of the battered remnants of Bruce loyalists in Dumbarton--save for Stewart, who was either not invited or refused to come--chose a new Guardian, Sir Andrew Murray, who had held the title previously, before being captured by the English. As opposed to many in his situation, Sir Andrew, who was the late King Robert's brother-in-law[3], had never submitted to Balliol and the Prince of Wales, even in captivity. Despite this, Sir Andrew had been allowed to ransom himself, a move the young Prince would come to greatly regret[4]...
"Murray started by offering the Prince a truce. Facing diminishing resources, an increasing spectre of French involvement, and a conflict that was beginning to resemble a morass, the Prince took it, even though it left his brother-in-law and his supporters to hang by themselves. It also did nothing to restrain John Stewart, who still sulkily did not regard Sir Andrew Murray as the true Guardian of Scotland. Balliol seems to have paid little regard to the former matter and a great deal to the latter. Most likely, he considered the rebels on their last legs, and saw their refusal to deal with him at the moment as a face-saving device, while seeing Stewart as 'a wolf on two legs' whose disposal would not only strengthen his own cause, but win him general praise.
"Unfortunately for Balliol, once again internal divisions returned to plague his followers in light of victory. With Stewart a rebel and outlaw by the Balliol line, a new Great Steward was needed--Balliol selected the Earl of Mar, likely under pressure from Prince Edward, who saw Mar as reliable and trustworthy[5]. Unfortunately, this offended the Earl of Atholl, who had hoped to gain the position himself, despite his opportunistic past. While the extent of his disenchantment remains unknown, it was at the very least exceedingly demoralizing for Atholl, and did nothing to shore up his always uncertain loyalties. Being placed under Mar as the latter was sent out to 'bring the rebel John of Lauder[6] to heel', likewise did little to help...
"Despite the claims of Mar and Atholl, the campaign against Stewart served as little more than an excuse to murder, loot and intimidate Bruce loyalists in the region. Eventually the pair's efforts brought them to Kildrummy Castle--Sir Andrew's own home, presently under the care of his formidable wife, Christina Bruce[7]. That redoubtable lady took up the castle's defense and succeeded in holding Mar and Atholl off. Murray's response to the siege was to break off the peace talks and race to Kildrummy's rescue. After some debate, Mar left the siege in Atholl's hands and rushed off to face Murray's small force. The resulting clash at the River Dee ended in Mar's utter defeat--his men were scattered, and the Earl killed fighting beneath an oak tree[8]. Atholl's response to this was to break off the siege and take his wife and family to the island fortress of Lochindorb[9], where he would spend the next year alternating between calling Balliol and the English for help and offering to surrender to the Scots.
"In Galloway, Balliol and his queen were left in the great ruin of Roxburgh, which Prince Edward had begun to repair only to abruptly stop. The half-repaired ruin was in many ways the perfect symbol of his Scottish war, left off incomplete even as it was begun as the Prince found himself preoccupied with other matters..."
--From Crowned Upon the Stone; the Story of Scotland, by Gyth Gythson (1998)
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[1] Balliol reportedly assisted Edward's plans IOTL, though this author is exaggerating his contribution.
[2] Moray and Robert Stewart's OTL uprising collapsed in a similar manner, though Robert had the sense to surrender when things had definitively turned against him.
[3] Sir Andrew's marriage to Robert Bruce's sister Christina is quite interesting. He was her second husband--many accounts have her twenty years older than him, with the result that Sir Andrew's children are frequently credited to an unknown first wife. However, given certain other inconsistencies in accounts of Christina, among them a phantom third marriage that proceeded the other two which her contemporaries don't seem to be aware of, it is most likely that there were two Bruce sisters of that name, and Sir Andrew married the younger one, thus making his mysterious first wife nothing more than an error of modern chroniclers.
[4] Murray was likewise ransomed by Edward IOTL. It was a mistake, and one Edward learned not to repeat.
[5] IOTL, Atholl was named Steward, Balliol not having a dearth of reliable followers.
[6] Stewart's father was also known as Walter of Lauder.
[7] Christina likewise defended her husband's castle IOTL, not the only woman who would do this in this era.
[8] IOTL, it was Atholl who perished beneath the oak tree.
[9] IOTL, Lochindorb served as a refuge for Atholl's wife and her retinue.
That he is, but whether he can hold on for long, without Edward there is another issue.
1335-6: France & England
1335-6: FROM BAD TO WORSE
"...Even as Prince Edward campaigned in Scotland, England faced a growing threat from French privateers in the Channel, great enough that when Parliament next convened in York, several members complained about the his absenting himself to attack the Scots when England faced a grave threat. As usual, Parliament's bark proved worse than its bite--Edward's hoped for funds did come, after all--but it was a worrying sign for the future that the Prince ignored. And his diplomatic problems swiftly compounded as his great bargaining chip, the Crusade, slipped away...
"Despite France's call to delay the Crusade, Edward held out hope that this would be a temporary measure. This was not without just reason--King John himself seems to have held similar hopes, as did many leading members of his government, most especially the Duke of Anjou. Anjou had recently engineered the marriage of his eldest surviving son, John of Valois, to Catherine Habsburg[1] only to see the young man have a severe and debilitating illness shortly thereafter. This tragedy was compounded by the deaths of several of his younger children, among them his daughter Marie, and his wife's latest pregnancy ending in a stillbirth. Both extraordinarily devout and superstitious in the extreme, Anjou indulged himself in a paroxysm of shows of faith while also hunting for witches and malignant sorcerers. Increasingly convinced that the holy war was the only remedy for the ills afflicted on his house, the Duke attempted to persuade the Pope to continue the crusade. He seems only to have succeeded in convincing the Vicar of Christ that he was a simpleton--reportedly the Pope confided to several cardinals that he felt the Duke to have 'little more sense than a child in many matters'[2]...
"Peace increasingly relied on King John's good favor, and this seemed increasingly unlikely to be gained. The Prince's last emissary was rebuked by his cousin's grand declaration that the matter would only be solved when 'the King of France sat in judgement in London of the fighting between England and the Scots'[3]. Edward had a difficult time not seeing this as a threat, and he was probably supposed to. English reports--possibly culled from spying on French diplomats' mail--circulated about the massive war preparations, which included thousands of troops to be sent to Scotland, or to invade England as needed, for whom thousands of weapons and coats of mail were already set aside[4]..."
--From This Terrible Majesty (Vol. 1): Prince and Steward by Augusta Lyme (1978)
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[1] John de Valois has gotten the OTL wife Enguerrand VI de Coucy, father of the more famous Enguerrand VII de Coucy.
[2] Philip seems to have wound up giving OTL's Pope Benedict XII a similar opinion of his abilities.
[3] Philip was reported to have said something similar IOTL, which was probably made up by Edward. This might be a similar invention--on the other hand, as should be clear by now John can be a tad presumptuous.
[4] Similar reports of French preparations reached England during the buildup to the Hundred Years War IOTL--and were likely obtained the same way.
"...Even as Prince Edward campaigned in Scotland, England faced a growing threat from French privateers in the Channel, great enough that when Parliament next convened in York, several members complained about the his absenting himself to attack the Scots when England faced a grave threat. As usual, Parliament's bark proved worse than its bite--Edward's hoped for funds did come, after all--but it was a worrying sign for the future that the Prince ignored. And his diplomatic problems swiftly compounded as his great bargaining chip, the Crusade, slipped away...
"Despite France's call to delay the Crusade, Edward held out hope that this would be a temporary measure. This was not without just reason--King John himself seems to have held similar hopes, as did many leading members of his government, most especially the Duke of Anjou. Anjou had recently engineered the marriage of his eldest surviving son, John of Valois, to Catherine Habsburg[1] only to see the young man have a severe and debilitating illness shortly thereafter. This tragedy was compounded by the deaths of several of his younger children, among them his daughter Marie, and his wife's latest pregnancy ending in a stillbirth. Both extraordinarily devout and superstitious in the extreme, Anjou indulged himself in a paroxysm of shows of faith while also hunting for witches and malignant sorcerers. Increasingly convinced that the holy war was the only remedy for the ills afflicted on his house, the Duke attempted to persuade the Pope to continue the crusade. He seems only to have succeeded in convincing the Vicar of Christ that he was a simpleton--reportedly the Pope confided to several cardinals that he felt the Duke to have 'little more sense than a child in many matters'[2]...
"Peace increasingly relied on King John's good favor, and this seemed increasingly unlikely to be gained. The Prince's last emissary was rebuked by his cousin's grand declaration that the matter would only be solved when 'the King of France sat in judgement in London of the fighting between England and the Scots'[3]. Edward had a difficult time not seeing this as a threat, and he was probably supposed to. English reports--possibly culled from spying on French diplomats' mail--circulated about the massive war preparations, which included thousands of troops to be sent to Scotland, or to invade England as needed, for whom thousands of weapons and coats of mail were already set aside[4]..."
--From This Terrible Majesty (Vol. 1): Prince and Steward by Augusta Lyme (1978)
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[1] John de Valois has gotten the OTL wife Enguerrand VI de Coucy, father of the more famous Enguerrand VII de Coucy.
[2] Philip seems to have wound up giving OTL's Pope Benedict XII a similar opinion of his abilities.
[3] Philip was reported to have said something similar IOTL, which was probably made up by Edward. This might be a similar invention--on the other hand, as should be clear by now John can be a tad presumptuous.
[4] Similar reports of French preparations reached England during the buildup to the Hundred Years War IOTL--and were likely obtained the same way.
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