And rest assured everyone, after that long series of Scotland posts...

There's more Scotland coming soon.

Soon, you will join Edward, Prince of Wales in asking 'Will this Scottish matter ever end'?
 
Yes, I agree that it's best we concentrate on the actual protagonist instead of the supporting players. Poor John's on the verge of being a cameo in his own AH.
 
Yes, I agree that it's best we concentrate on the actual protagonist instead of the supporting players. Poor John's on the verge of being a cameo in his own AH.

Well, the title is 'Life and Times'. The sad fact is, John's reign is heavily dependent on what happens in England, which is heavily dependent on what happens in Scotland. Further, it matters who is Pope, what significant nobles are doing with themselves...
 
Space Oddity,

Your call of course and so far I've liked it when John's around. However; one could argue the same re George Washington being heavily dependent on what happened in England and France for a good part of his life but he definitely emerged as his own man and master of his own and the nation's fate despite what the established powers tried to throw at him. I'd like that to happen re John.
 
1330-5: The Papacy
1330-1335: THE CHURCH'S STATE

"...By 1330, Pope John XXII had headed off the threat of Pietro Rainalducci's antipapacy, with the so-called Nicholas V arriving in Avignon to make his submission. He would spend the remaining years of his life a pensioner of the pontiff he'd tried to overthrow[1]. Having thus headed off one attempt to depose him on charges of heresy, John would then blithely march into another one within a year, giving several sermons in which he denied the Beatific Vision[2]. This began a lengthy controversey that would dog the last years of his papacy, especially as John refused to recant these statements, and indeed, privately even went further, suggesting for example, that Hell might not exist... His death in December of 1334 came as something to a relief to his fellows, especially as it was accompanied by a qualified recantation of his earlier statements...[3]

"The Papal Conclave of 1334 met with a goal of installing a pope more agreeable than the late one. Reportedly, the first choice of most of the conclave was the Cardinal Jean-Raymond de Comminges, provided he would swear not leave Avignon, which he refused[4]. An effort was then made to select the austere reformer and inquisitor Jacques Fornier, but ultimately failed to reach the necessary two-thirds majority[5]. In the end, the conclave selected the Cardinal Pierre de Mortmarte, whose enthusiastic sponsoring of abbeys and convents convinced the conclave of his suitability. The Cardinal, after some misgivings, accepted and became Pope Stephan XI[6], after his rank as cardinal priest of Saint Stefano al Monte Celio.

"Stephan's reign would begin with promise, but be cut short. Ending the increasingly pointless excommunication of Emperor Louis[7], threw himself into preparations for the coming crusade--only to die suddenly "of a fever" in late March of 1335[8]. And so the cardinals found themselves in a second conclave after only a few months.

"This time the conclave moved quickly, settling on their original first choice Cardinal de Comminges. There was no effort to extract pledges on their part, and on his part, Comminges could not help but perceive both the hand of God and perhaps a lost opportunity regained. And so Jean-Raymond would become Pope John XXIII[9], a choice that seems to reveal the new pontiff's deep lack of imagination more than anything else. That was, more than anything else, what the cardinals had sought in their choice--a man who would listen to them, and would not cause endless theological rifts as he sought to demonstrate his genius on the world's stage.

"As the cardinals would learn, this lack of imagination would not make John XXIII an easy pontiff. He was by most accounts a stocial man, a man not given to passions--Cardinal de Talleyrand famously declared 'a man without any blood at all.' The error the Cardinals made was to mistake this for docility. As John had already demonstrated, the new pope had a rather stiff sense of propriety--as he would later show, it was joined by a rather stiff sense of his own dignity. In the years ahead this would affect his dealings with a group of men just as proud--King John I of France, Edward Prince of Wales (later Edward III), the Emperor Louis IV and his son, Louis of Brandenburg; and of course, the most arrogant of them all, Philip the Proud, Duke of Berry and Count-Palatine of Burgundy..."

--The Babylonian Captivity; The Papacy in Avignon, Isabelle Dunois (1970)
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[1] This was Rainalducci's fate IOTL as well.

[2] Yes, John did this IOTL as well. His boundless intellectual arrogance was arguably his most likeable trait.

[3] John reportedly declared on his deathbed that souls in Heaven did perceive God 'in so far as they were able to'. Just let it wash over you.

[4] This allegedly happened IOTL as well.

[5] IOTL Benedict XII.

[6] Technically, this should probably be Pope Stephen X, but Stephen is one of the papal names with a confusing numbering scheme, caused by whether one counts a Pope-Elect.

[7] IOTL, Louis IV seems to have continued to labor under his excommunication.

[8] Cardinal de Montmartre died around this time IOTL.

[9] IOTL, the first John XXIII would be the famed 15th century antipope who was the first pope of the Great Schism unseated by the Council of Constance. That really put a keybosh on the name.
 
As the cardinals would learn, this lack of imagination would not make John XXIII an easy pontiff. He was by most accounts a stocial man, a man not given to passions--Cardinal de Talleyrand famously declared 'a man without any blood at all.' The error the Cardinals made was to mistake this for docility. As John had already demonstrated, the new pope had a rather stiff sense of propriety--as he would later show, it was joined by a rather stiff sense of his own dignity.
I have a strange feeling, as your description of John XXIII makes me thinking of The Young Pope's Pius XIII. Maybe inspired by?
 
I have a strange feeling, as your description of John XXIII makes me thinking of The Young Pope's Pius XIII. Maybe inspired by?

Nope, especially as I've never even seen the show.

POSTSCRIPT--Though seeing as the man who made The Great Beauty is behind it, I might have to check it out.
 
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Next post... Philip the Proud, John's other cousin who he hates.

Is there any direct member of the family who Jean le Solitaire even likes? Oh, and John XXIII seems to be ready to hang about for a good ten years, if we go by OTL. Might he leave as much of a legacy as a certain Ippolito d'Este?
 
Is there any direct member of the family who Jean le Solitaire even likes? Oh, and John XXIII seems to be ready to hang about for a good ten years, if we go by OTL. Might he leave as much of a legacy as a certain Ippolito d'Este?

With a name like "Jean le Solitaire," I'm guessing... no?
 
With a name like "Jean le Solitaire," I'm guessing... no?

I was riffing on the fact that virtually nobody in his family has his seal of approval, admittedly for good reason. From some of SpaceOddity's comments Jean has some friends or will have some. But he seems to be very lonely on the family front so that's why I gave him the nickname.
 
I was riffing on the fact that virtually nobody in his family has his seal of approval, admittedly for good reason. From some of SpaceOddity's comments Jean has some friends or will have some. But he seems to be very lonely on the family front so that's why I gave him the nickname.

Hey, he likes his half-sister, her husband, and her kids, and he likes Robert of Artois, who is another brother-in-law.
 
A fascinating TL, @Space Oddity! :) I did have a question, though - will Prince Edward face trouble from his own family on top of the Scotland Problem, the France Rivalry, and everything else on his plate? I know Edward II seems to be enjoying his retirement, taking up gardening and playing with his younger children, but what about Queen Maude? I know she was said to have been gentle and docile, but that was when she first came to England as a little girl. Now that she's older and a mother to a brood of fine children, might she be a bit resentful that she's been shunted off to be little more than a housewife? She is the anointed Queen of England, the daughter of the HRE, and yet she wields no influence, and seems to have been tossed aside. I'm guessing that since Prince Edward has taken his father's place, Princess Philippa has taken Maude's place as the highest lady in England in practice?

Because there is nothing likes scheming royal families, after all. ;)

Thanks so much for sharing the TL with us! :D
 
A fascinating TL, @Space Oddity! :) I did have a question, though - will Prince Edward face trouble from his own family on top of the Scotland Problem, the France Rivalry, and everything else on his plate? I know Edward II seems to be enjoying his retirement, taking up gardening and playing with his younger children, but what about Queen Maude? I know she was said to have been gentle and docile, but that was when she first came to England as a little girl. Now that she's older and a mother to a brood of fine children, might she be a bit resentful that she's been shunted off to be little more than a housewife? She is the anointed Queen of England, the daughter of the HRE, and yet she wields no influence, and seems to have been tossed aside. I'm guessing that since Prince Edward has taken his father's place, Princess Philippa has taken Maude's place as the highest lady in England in practice?

Because there is nothing likes scheming royal families, after all. ;)

Thanks so much for sharing the TL with us! :D

The thing is Maude has literally no base of support in England, and a poor grasp of the language, on top of being in her early twenties.
 
1334-6: Free County of Burgundy
1334-6: "THAT PROUD AND LOFTY MAN"

"In 1334, the city of Dole saw a wedding celebrated with royal grandeur in its Notre-Dame cathedral. Like much of Dole, the cathedral was both impressive and fairly new[1]--though compared to much of what surrounded it, Notre-Dame de Dole seemed respectable in its age. For in the last few years, the little capital of the Free County of Burgundy had seen a fury of construction. Some of it was at the orders of the young man who was being married--the rest was done independently of him, and yet rested on the fact that he would be living here. "For Philip of Burgundy loved Dole more than any other place upon the Earth, and sought to live there as a great prince," noted Jean Froissart in his Chronicles, as he sought to describe 'the little Paris' that served the House of Poitiers as its capital. Poitiu and Berry may have been larger and richer, but the Free County was where Philip felt at home, his own master. The tale is told that once during an argument with his royal cousin, John declared loftily that Philip was his subject and had to do what he said. "That may be true now," replied Philip, "but when I am Count of Burgundy, I will be my own master, and I will refuse you!" The story is likely apocryphal--the feelings were almost certainly real...

"The bride came accompanied by her father, King John of Bohemia, and her brothers, Charles, and John Henry. Young Bonne--a rather tortured Francification of her birthname of Jutta by her ardently francophile father[2]--was nineteen, the same age as her husband. She had previously been engaged to the Count of Bar, but this betrothal had fallen through, and a glittering marriage to the Count-Palatine took its place[3]. Philip swore to his father-in-law that they would ride together in the upcoming crusade, as the guests watched a great play showing the Nine Worthies, accompanied by troops of singers and dancers. The king replied that he was honored to have so valiant a warrior with him...

"The marriage would of course, swiftly prove fruitful, with Philip's eldest son, (also named Philip, and generally known as the Count of Poitiers during his youth for simplicity's sake) born early the next year. None there realized that these grand hopes of crusade were soon going to be destroyed. Nor did they realize that so many at this joyous wedding would be bitter enemies fifteen years later..."

--Philip the Proud, by John Desmond (1993)
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[1] This is not the present day Notre-Dame de Dole cathedral, which is a Renaissance structure, but an earlier one built by the redoubtable Mahaut of Artois.

[2] The figuring of Medieval German/Bohemians ran "Jutta=Good=Bonne". As for John, he greatly preferred Paris to Prague, and actually sent his eldest son there to be raised.

[3] And Philip of Burgundy has stolen the OTL first bride of John of Valois, aka IOTL John II of France.
 
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1330-6: England
1330-6: "FORTUNE'S RISING STAR"

"We have very little record of Gilbert Despenser immediately following the Earl of Kent's Rising--showing a lifelong talent for knowing when to retire from the public view, he seems to have kept a low profile. The closest news we have of him are a few land grants given to the Despensers in wake of the Rising, and a signature on the marriage contract of his sister Eleanor, the Baroness Audley of Barnstaple[1]. Only a few years later, Gilbert Despenser would make his own bond with an Audley--his cousin and ward, Margaret[2]...

"The marriage that would make Gilbert's fortune, raising him from his already sizable wealth to become one of England's premiere magnates[3], required a great deal of finesse on his part--he and Margaret Audley lay well within the prohibited degree of kinship, and would require the good favor of both church and crown. The latter however was more important than the former, and Gilbert already possessed a measure of it. What was needed was an excuse to exercise it. And the war with Scotland gave just that opportunity.

"Gilbert was among the English commanders at Dupplin Moor and Halidon Hill, demonstrating courage and fortitude by all accounts, and earning the good will of both Edward Balliol and the Prince... Reportedly, it was after Halidon that Gilbert approached the Prince with his design, which Edward agreed to as a means to end the two families long standing land disputes[4]. Indeed, a year later Gilbert would become the new Earl of Gloucester[5] both to recognize his new munificence and to gain funds for the ongoing struggle in Scotland... Gilbert was by most reports 'boundlessly pleased' by his advancement in rank, and be more pleased by the birth of his first son, Hugh..."

--From 'By Our Merits Have We Risen': The Despenser Dynasty by Augusta Lyme (1983)
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[1] IOTL, Eleanor was sent to a nunnery by the Mortimer regime, and the Baron Audley wed one Mortimer's daughters.

[2] IOTL, she wed Ralph de Stafford after being kidnapped by him. Her parents complained, but Ralph was one of Edward's inner circle, so they had to be satisfied with a few new titles. I told you all you'd be hearing about kidnappings again.

[3] On top of his share of his father's lands, Gilbert has gotten in the vicinity of £2314 a year from his wife's estates, which explains the OTL kidnapping quite well.

[4] The Audleys and the Despensers were involved in a long-standing dispute on who would inherit the properties of the late Earl of Gloucester.

[5] IOTL, Margaret's father Hugh was made Earl of Gloucester to make him more accepting of his daughter being kidnapped. It seems to have worked.
 
Despenser Dynasty? It could easily refer to a long time holding the title of Gloucester -- or perhaps they are destined for greater things...
 
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