Bormann Killed in 1937

Martin Bormann, that is. Secretary of Deputy Fuhrer at the time of the proposed time of death. He would've later gone on to be Secretary of the Fuhrer, Chief of the Parteikanzlei, and Party Minister of the Nazi Party.

At the time he had five children, three of whom had the likes of Hitler, Himmler, and Hess as their godfathers. What effect would this have on the German Reich?

(Note: I don't care how Bormann dies, just that he dies in 1937)
 

The Vulture

Banned
Why 1937?

And honestly, can't see it making a whole lot of difference. Hess would probably just be given more prominence and might not make his flight to Scotland.

And before ODESSA comes up, it's been conclusively proven that Bormann died trying to leave Berlin towards the end.
 
You could assume most things fall out the same except rather importantly Bormann not whispering in Hitler's ear. Goebbels, Speer and Rosenberg may get Hitler to stick to his agreement over changing policy on Ukraine and the East

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Axeman was with him. Axeman saw the body. It was in Anthony Beever's book its by far the most credible account on the subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artur_Axmann
In the article I read it said that Axmann actually didn't go to check the bodies, but that their faces were well lit by the moonlight. That leaves maybe a 10% chance of them still being alive. That's not 100% conclusive, it's 90% conclusive ;)

You could assume most things fall out the same except rather importantly Bormann not whispering in Hitler's ear. Goebbels, Speer and Rosenberg may get Hitler to stick to his agreement over changing policy on Ukraine and the East

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
And what effects would the Ukraine and East policy changes have? I haven't heard of this before.
 
My memory is a bit muddled over whether I got this from reading about Goebbels or about Speer. If the former it was in Spring 1943 and Goebbels etc wanted to halt the SS policies so as to get people back on the land, and was pressing for involvement of the "liberated" in their own government. Using them as allies etc. If I got it from reading about Speer it could have been a lot earlier when basic policy was still being agreed - what I do recall is that for various reasons they came together in this conclusion, got Hitler to agree to it, then later found that Bormann had talked up Hitler's extremism in him and that he had cancelled his agreement

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
In the article I read it said that Axmann actually didn't go to check the bodies, but that their faces were well lit by the moonlight. That leaves maybe a 10% chance of them still being alive. That's not 100% conclusive, it's 90% conclusive ;)


And what effects would the Ukraine and East policy changes have? I haven't heard of this before.


nobody ever saw borman or stumpfegger again alive conclusivly. no evidence of him being alive emerged no credible sightings despite intense work by nazi hunters. Axemann's account is true. the body which was discovered in the the 70's had genetic tests done it in the late 90's and it was matched to bormann's son (paternal match to bormann's son)... 100 percent he died in berlin in 1945 everything else is conspiracy crap
 
nobody ever saw borman or stumpfegger again alive conclusivly. no evidence of him being alive emerged no credible sightings despite intense work by nazi hunters. Axemann's account is true. the body which was discovered in the the 70's had genetic tests done it in the late 90's and it was matched to bormann's son (paternal match to bormann's son)... 100 percent he died in berlin in 1945 everything else is conspiracy crap
Ah. Why am I not surprised wiki didn't mention that? -.-
I need better sources.
 
Ah. Why am I not surprised wiki didn't mention that? -.-
I need better sources.


wiki does mention it on the bormann page... although it should be on the Axemann page too since it vindicated his story (the russians confirmed the other body was stumpfegger) but wiki does things in its own screwed up way. I think Manning has a book about the genetic testing I recall reading about the testing in the newspapers at the time seemed legit enough.
 
wiki does mention it on the bormann page... although it should be on the Axemann page too since it vindicated his story (the russians confirmed the other body was stumpfegger) but wiki does things in its own screwed up way. I think Manning has a book about the genetic testing I recall reading about it in the newspapers at the time seemed legit enough.
Got it. Now, back on topic, what if he had died 8 years earlier? Being a high level secretary, there has to be some butterflies on Nazi policy when the war stars.
 
Got it. Now, back on topic, what if he had died 8 years earlier? Being a high level secretary, there has to be some butterflies on Nazi policy when the war stars.
Some effect, to be sure, but how do you quantify it?

Bormann never really had much in the way of direct power, but his influence was huge. He to a large degree controlled access to hitler, what hitler saw, etc... It's a bit hard to really say just what impact he had, but the butterflies on projects approved or rejected, personnel assignments, and such is going to be huge. The real problem is knowing what the changes actually are going to be.
 
Some effect, to be sure, but how do you quantify it?

Bormann never really had much in the way of direct power, but his influence was huge. He to a large degree controlled access to hitler, what hitler saw, etc... It's a bit hard to really say just what impact he had, but the butterflies on projects approved or rejected, personnel assignments, and such is going to be huge. The real problem is knowing what the changes actually are going to be.


Bormann was the architect of the volksgrenadier divisions. Guderian wanted them to be built on the S.A. and be attached to the Heer as infantry regiments. Bormann turned them into party formations and patronized them with weapons that should have went to the regular line soldiers
 
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