Borgia Empire

What if the Borgia family remained powerful and were a powerful state in Italy? What if?

How does a Spanish family whose power largely comes from patronage of corrupt family members who were popes, and who annoyed most of the native Italian powerful families, manage to set up a state? Or at least one that lasts for more than a couple of years after said pope's death?

Pretty close to asb, id say.
 
How does a Spanish family whose power largely comes from patronage of corrupt family members who were popes, and who annoyed most of the native Italian powerful families, manage to set up a state? Or at least one that lasts for more than a couple of years after said pope's death?

Pretty close to asb, id say.

Um look at history. Before Alexander VI's death, Cesare Borgia's Duchy of the Romagna controlled a large amount of Central Italy and would have continued to do so if the Borgia's hadn't lost control of the Papacy. If Pope Pius III had lived longer then a month then the Borgia's could have held on to its domains. Or have Cesare be in a better mindset after Pius III's death and not stupidly swing his votes for his family's rival, Giuliano della Rovere or Pope Julius II. If Cesare kept control over the Papacy then eventually his reign rule would have been stabilized enough to stand away from the Papal support. I mean most writers have praised Cesare's governing of the Romagna so its not like he was a bad ruler.
 
I mean most writers have praised Cesare's governing of the Romagna so its not like he was a bad ruler.

Machievelli's rule 1 : being a "praised" ruler never solved anything by itself.
More seriously, Cesar Borgia's dominions depended heavily from the legitimacy his father gave him. After his death, everything crumbled, depsite Cesar being undoubtly skilled.
Could Cesar having kept control of papacy? Really hardly : he made mainy ennemies within the traditional roman elite and could only influence the vote by staying in Rome itself.
Doing that, however, would be the signal of rebellion in his italian holdings : it's what happened OTL while he was in Rome during the election of Pius II, and there's no reason that it wouldn't happen ITTL.

Now, WI Pius II doesn't die so soon? Well, maybe you'll have sort of concilation with Cesar keeping his Romagna's holdings in the name of the pope (as he did during his father's reign) but being more far from strict roman policies.
Personally, I don't think it would last : except a french support, Cesar was too isolated and his political agressivness would lead him sooner or later to fight with friends of roman elite and even papacy.
 
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