Bonus Army incident sparks a Communist Revolution

So you have the Bonus Army (American veterans serving as the basis for an army grafted onto the existing communist party apparatus in America), the Dusties/Rusties (moderate anti-communist unions, granges, organized socialists, etc.), the Federals (capitalists, military elitists, loyalists), and the Black Cats (Wobblies and other anarchists) fighting; crushing or absorbing local militias as they go.

Something like that?

Yeah it would pretty much be a free for all till alliances were made, or like I said it could just be one massive free for all.
 

Faraday Cage

Another thread has got me thinking: Balbo leading an Italian volunteer air legion alongside the anti-communist white army?
 
Another thread has got me thinking: Balbo leading an Italian volunteer air legion alongside the anti-communist white army?

Sure thing. I see this kind of a conflict eclipsing the Spanish Civil War as the battleground between left and right. As such, we'd likely have a large influx of ideologies from Europe (Rightist Syndicalism, Über Fascim, etc.) along with the OTL leftist ideologies (Communism,Anarchism). So here's my take:

Blue Army: Led by National Syndicalists and Socialists
White Army: A mix of previous government forces and hard-righters.
Red Army: Commies
Black Army: Anarchists

So, it would probably go down similar to OTL Spanish Civil war, with a united 'Nationalist' Movement (Blues and Right Wing) facing a more disjointed alliance between the Commies, Republicans, and Anarchists.

Then there's four likely possibilities:
1.) Similarly to OTL, the Right Manages to succeed with west-European and Fascist support. The US becomes a Syndicalist-Socialist Coalition Gov.
2.) The Fascists support the White army with a large force and equipment. The old government triumphs at a bloody cost and becomes a paranoid and highly conservative government.
3.)The Communists recieve massive Soviet support and forcefully unite the 'republican' (left wing) forces into one front. The Commies win and raise the Red Banner over DC.
4.) After a long and bloody struggle, the League of Nations negotiate a peaceful division of the charred land into several factions (Balkanization).

I would love to write this timeline...but I can't start until I pick up a new laptop tonight.

Thoughts?
 

Faraday Cage

With Britain and France supporting the Dusties/Rusties (Blue), Italy and Japan supporting the Federals (White), the USSR supporting the Bonus Army (Red), and international volunteers from all over serving whichever side suits them politically; things definitely will be interesting.

Now, by this time is Trotsky in Mexico? And if so will he back the Rusties/Dusties, the Black Cats, or neither?
 
'republican' (left wing)

No one in America could seriously suggest a monarchy without losing all political legitimacy. Republicans are not on "the left" of the American political spectrum, they are nearly the entirety of the spectrum with only anarchists not being some sort of republican.
 

Faraday Cage

I think he was using it in Spanish Civil War analogy for the collected forces of various ideologies opposed to ultranationalism/fascism.
 
Based on my knowladge of the period, American economy, political thought, culture, etc. I would argue that the Blue-White Alliance would triumph and what would come out of the ashes would be a more moderate Socialist government with several political parties ranging from far right to moderate left.
 
Based on my knowladge of the period, American economy, political thought, culture, etc. I would argue that the Blue-White Alliance would triumph and what would come out of the ashes would be a more moderate Socialist government with several political parties ranging from far right to moderate left.


How would this effect WWII?

Edit: Actually, about how long would the civil war last?
 
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How would this effect WWII?

Edit: Actually, about how long would the civil war last?


Well the Rusties/Dusties would dominate a post war government so you would definatly have a pro-France/Britain US with some pro-Italian leanings from the right.

No doubt the post war US would still end up being a rival to Japan because short of a complete White victory there not going to have many fans in the new Blue dominated governement (do to the treatment of missionaries and the Chinese). The new government would also most likely being anti-Nazi as the Blues would have its ranks composed of ever American walk of life, the White forces would also most likely be anti-Nazi and anti-Japanese becuase they would preicve them as threats to US global power.

The Soviets would essentially American enemies for ever with little chance at any reconciliation unless the anti-Nazi Blues can convince the large right minority that the supporting the Soviets against the Nazi forces can further their goals at American economic and military super powers. So I do think we would see a lend lease type program in order to protect the God fearing west from the clutchs of the Facists and Communists, or atleast thats how the Blues will see it and the Whites will see it as a way to weaken Americas enemies in order to pave the way for American global economic hegemony.

And thats even if WWII and the years running up to it even remotly play out like OTL, for all we know the US could come out of its war just as the Spanish begin theirs so the worlod has witnessed how modern weapons can be used and have tested their ship, tank, aircraft, artillery, smallarms, etc. on the blood soaked battlfields and cities of America as they flood their respective sides with modern and surplus arms. The four year (lets say the war lasts four years) American Civil War would have shown how tanks and modern aircraft can be untilised on a massive scale as well as the dangers of urban combat. So the Spanish Civil war will be fought as per OTL but instead the the various supporters of both sides will have learned valuable lessions form the second ACW which will either lead to a shorter war or a longer bloodier one in Spain.
 
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Actually I think it'd improve the economy, creating demand for goods. It'd be easy for the economy to surpass pre-2nd Civil War, but it'd be at least a decade before the economy reaches pre-Depression output.
 
:eek: Gah!

Yes, I meant infrastructure.

Infrastructure isn't much good if none if it's being put to use, though. But, as ryackov said, it could aid the economy. Then again, I think any economy where a war is used as the backbone or savior of the economy tends to turn a bit Fascistic so that could bode ill for the liberty of the state to follow. Likewise, I see a pretty big recession when the war's over if someone doesn't have a good plan for transition to peacetime soon after.
 
This isn't completely ASB, but it IS pretty unlikely. To bring Russian-style revolution in America, I think you'd almost have to have an early enough POD to weaken our democracy somehow. Conditions in monarchies like Russia and Spain were so much worse it's hard to believe it was the same planet. And, those bad conditions tend to produce much more radicalization and thus higher %ages of ready rebels.

You know, we Americans are well-trained in just waiting four or eight years for the bastard's time to end. Only a tiny, tiny minority of Americans ever wanted to see a coup against Bush II, because we knew his time would eventually end. It's taking a ton of effort and time and effort to undo the damage, but it is happening at last, as we knew it would. Democracies are much more often hacked or fail to mature than are revolted against.

Americans dying stupid charging machine gun was probably the biggest issue early in the century, like for the rest of the Allied democracies, but Wilson was already long gone by Hoover's time.

...er, you could at least TRY to produce rebel groups that have something to do with American politics, meow.... For one thing, real American armies. groups, and rebels have read their Franklin on the need to hang together they aren't to hang separately, so they don't fragment ala Spain. So, you just get two groups in the war - that's what happened in our Whiskey Rebellion and that's what happened in our real civil war. For another, you'd likely see our two party coalitions as the basis for grouping, with changes to adapt to events, like Lincoln creating a Union party that started as just Republicans, but also added the many Democrats who wanted the keep the South from seceding. And, Faraday, American armies tend conservative, so suggesting they'd go red seems ... unlikely... radicalized army elements likelier'd be fascist, and plenty would also be unhappy, but honor their oaths and not turn rebel. Oh, and winner-take-all politiics like our Presidential contest makes useful third parties impractical.
 
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