Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran: An Iran war TL

I think you need a wee retcon on one of your posts. In one you have Jim Webb losing in a squeaker to Allen, but not long after that you have Webb as one of the Senators from Virginia.
Oh and I hope that you have the economic catastrophe that's about hit written right. It's going to be a doozey!
 
Very interesting TL. I like how you use politicians actual words from otl or something very similar in this new setting. I am sad to see Rice replaced with Bolton, and that Rumsfield wasn't replaced with Gates but it's likely that's what Cheney would have done as president.
 
Neat TL, I can't wait to see how things develop. Rather disappointed you didn't put up this video in the OP though (warning: political content may be offensive to some)...

Some musing on the development of the ground war:

The Iranians are not the Iraqis or any other Arab armies. They have a number of defects inherent to being a rather dictatorial and politicized armed forces but they are nowhere near as mindbogglingly incompetent as the Iraqis. Most of their soldiers actually do know how to shoot with some degree of accuracy, how to maneuver, and how to use their kits more advanced features like infrared scopes and fire control systems. They do train realistically, sometimes, and they can be fairly inventive with some use of tactical initiative. They may not be as good on a man-for-man basis as any Western or major Eastern military power (like Russia and China), but they are still leagues above the opponents the US has faced in previous Middle Eastern wars. Basically, their decent soldiers. Not great, not bad. But decent.

On the operational-strategic level, after watching both invasion of Iraq, the Iranians switched to a more realistic style of guerrilla warfare, with layers of irregular fighters, backed by trained commandos, and fast moving armored and helimobile battlegroups, all under the cover of hit-and-run aerial ambushes. The Iranian-trained Hezbollah demonstrated some of Iran's tactics in Lebanon in 2006 with good success, so we know the Iranians were (and are) on the right track. Their response to any American ground invasion will be to (at first) trade-space-for-time so as to ensure US forces become logistically overstretched (the longer distance from the Iraqi border to Tehran means it's impossible to make a single it in a single lunge like we did in going from Kuwait to Baghdad). Specially trained and prepared "stay behind" guerilla groups based around the IRGC, Pasdaran, and other paramilitaries will emerge to attack American supply lines once major combat forces have passed by. These will be coordinated withhit-and-run counter-attacks by the aforementioned mobile battlegroups so as to maximize both of their effectiveness. The Iranians will invariably balance the aggressiveness of these assaults with the need for force preservation, so as to deny the US a decisive battle that would accelerate the conventional phase of the conflict.

The Iranians are not under any delusion that they can win against an American invasion, but they do hope to delay, string it out, and cause enough casualties that the war becomes politically unpopular and the Americans will ultimately call it quits. And they have laid the full ground work for a insurgent movement so they could continue to implement a assymetric strategy when (note: not if, when) the US were successfully occupies the entire country.

TL;DR: Expect a longer and bloodier conventional ground campaign then experienced against Iraq in either 1991 or 2003 followed by an insurgency that makes Iraq and Afghanistan looks like child's play.

Also:

Bush was giving a speech in Georgia, the former Soviet republic. The grenade also killed Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, who was closer to the grenade and suffered even more severe injuries than President Bush. It is unclear whether the assassin intended to kill both men.
While you've laid the ground work for an invasion of Iran, you've also prevented Georgia from getting curbstomped by the Russian's in '08. Silver lining! :p

Iran would take a helluva beating doing this though, since the attackers would lose the element of surprise as soon as they fired, or indeed as soon as they came within missile range of the carrier task force, if they were in civilian craft then they would be warned away and then sunk if they did not turn back. I'd estimate 78% casualties on the Iranian side for 10-20% on the US side.

Modest nitpick here, most of the anti-ship missile attacks on the Hormuz would undoubtedly be carried out by batteries of mobile launchers operating on and around the Iranian coast, not by Iranian naval vessels. I imagine most of those would be used as mine layers (another handy, cheap weapon for closing the straits) and being conserved as a "threat-in-being".

In both cases, the US would have to take pro-active measures to inflict casualties on the Iranians. Although, as both the 1991 and 2003 "scud hunts" show, finding and hitting mobile launchers can be really hard. Probably the only way the US can be sure to stop the missile attacks would be to physically secure the coastline with troops.
 
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I like this, a lot


US Aircraft carrier would not be "escorting" anything like like a tanker. US Navy is not dumb, in case of war like this carrier will be nowhere near the range of the land based anti shipping missile. Change it to a smaller vessel?

I don't think insurers will stop paying for stuff lost in the gulf, rates will just go up.


Considering how fucked up ME is now, I really wonder if you can make it more fucked and how :)

This. A carrier would stay well out of range of any ASM and the shore. Make it a destroyer or frigate. In any case, the losses among the Iranian forces conducting the attack would be horrendous.

I am interested in seeing if there will be more of a rift between ("old") Europe and the USA. Furthermore, there would almost certainly be more anti-war demonstrations all over the continent, not just in Berlin.
 
I will follow this, with the incoming wave of the economic recession the shitstorm will be an absolute nightmare, and say hallo to the coalition troops in Iraq, the Green Zone will be a parked lot at the end of the week. Even the oil infrastructures in Barhein, Saudi Arabia, EAU will be under siege for years to come.

But who will join US in such operation ? Israel, Saudi Arabia and maybe Turkey but who else ?

Russia in the meanwhile will have a field day in signing contracts for oil supply.
 
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Would it be possible that some Iranians support the Americans, or would this be a great patriotic war for them? I suspect the Iranian government does not have universal support.

I suspect such support could make it harder for Americans, as reprisals and other ugly things of counter-insurgency would become unfeasible if Bush believed Iran could be built into a Pro-western democracy. If it's shown not to be the case, I could see Americans taking a nastier tack than they did in Iraq.

Also, are other Arab states providing the US any support such as the Saudis, who aren't fans of Iran?

I suspect in such a scenario I'd have been providing some weather forecasts...
 
Would it be possible that some Iranians support the Americans, or would this be a great patriotic war for them? I suspect the Iranian government does not have universal support.

I suspect such support could make it harder for Americans, as reprisals and other ugly things of counter-insurgency would become unfeasible if Bush believed Iran could be built into a Pro-western democracy. If it's shown not to be the case, I could see Americans taking a nastier tack than they did in Iraq.

Also, are other Arab states providing the US any support such as the Saudis, who aren't fans of Iran?

I suspect in such a scenario I'd have been providing some weather forecasts...
Disclaimer: Far from an expert

While there was and is significant dissent against the regime, these dissenters are not pro-western just because they are pro democracy. If I'm not mistaken there is quite a leftist bias of the Iranian opposition.

If USA wager that they do not need a clean break with the former regime, the different parties and ideologues of the reform movement might be tried to be used as "puppets". However the reformists are quite likely to adhere to patriotic calls.
 
Why would the US not want a new regime? The mullahs were probably the most hated group other than Al-Qaeda over the past 30 years in the US.

There will be a new regime attempted, and it will not have any of the old guard in it. That much I'm certain about.

of course, Iraq's probably a basketcase at this time- but I'm sure we're giving the Sunnis/Kurds in Iraq a freer hand unlike OTL.

I can really imagine TTL being a Shia-screw.
 
Modest nitpick here, most of the anti-ship missile attacks on the Hormuz would undoubtedly be carried out by batteries of mobile launchers operating on and around the Iranian coast, not by Iranian naval vessels. I imagine most of those would be used as mine layers (another handy, cheap weapon for closing the straits) and being conserved as a "threat-in-being".

Good point, I sometimes forget how narrow the straits of Hormuz really are.
 
Venezuela must be laughing that, they're ultra safe and the biggest oil producer in the americas...that will be insane.

I do think Cheney may push for more support to the opposition in Venezuela- including CIA aid...
And I do think the US might be willing to buy oil from Canada, Mexico- or even Russia...
At least Georgia won't likely start the South Ossetia War.

BTW, one post of yours identified Lieberman as a Democrat. He had switched parties by then. (Perhaps he might even not caucus with the Democrats in this TL, in gratitude for Cheney and company dropping support from Republican Alan Schlesinger.)

Did the 2007 NIE come out saying that Iran was not seeking nukes as OTL?

At lest the economy may start moving away from oil and petroleum.
 
Our only true ally on the Security Council [1], Britain, wishes to appease Iran by calling for a diplomatic resolution to the current crisis. Well, Mr. Blair would learn much from reading about a man by the name of Chamberlain who used to occupy his position, and made the same mistake of appeasing a similarly brutal regime [2].”
Gordon Brown had been PM for almost eleven months by this point.
 

ThePest179

Banned
I like your TL here. :)

Questions:
In domestic and foreign policy, how much has Cheney deviated from the OTL Bush Administration? What's the situation in Iraq like ITTL? Any major butterflies regarding the July War or Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
 

takerma

Banned
$400 is the panic response, not a rational one at this stage. Question is how Iran will close the straight? This time US has gloves off so to speak it is not Iraq/Iran war.

Some ideas.

1. Subs, I don't know much about Iranian training but couple well led well trained diesel subs can really inflict havoc on shipping in the straight. But this is dependent on men, imagine a Swedish or another really high end diesel sub force captain with a few month prep in there. One or two good/lucky Iranians..

2. Shore based anti ship missiles. You need targeting data supplied by? These are not scuds. When they light radar US bombers will be right on top of them.

3. Minelayers, Minelaying from subs. :) This has potential. Iran needs large mine stockpiles and commit all of their subs to it. Can be really effective.

US probably has plans and preparing for some landing to secure small islands in the straight. Maybe even mainland? Draw Iranians into counter attack in face of air and sea firepower?
 
I can't even imagine the political clusterfuck this is causing in Spain during election year. If Zapatero allows the use of Rota in the war against Iran, he's going to be perceived as having betrayed the principles that elected him in 2004. But if not, all those ships and submarines that would be docking at Rota on the way to Suez are just going to bottle at Gibraltar instead, which is going to be taken as an Anglo-American insult by the left (who would be staging even bigger antiwar rallies than in 2003) and a sign that Zapatero is condemning Spain to international irrelevance by the right (and their pamphlets would be publishing sob stories about how much money and jobs the Americans would be leaving in Cadiz if it wasn't for that bad, bad man in La Moncloa). I wonder also if Cheney kept Bush's infantile decision to not meet with or phone Zapatero after he was elected, or at least tried a public reapproachment like Obama. Cheney seems evil in plain sight but not dumb.
 
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