Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond

Has Ethel Kennedy had any children since Rory ITTL?
Allow me to get back to you on that one! :) I certainly think she could, with Bobby living longer ITTL.
Bobby and Ethel were definetly the most Catholic out of all the Kennedys except for Rose Kennedy. IOTL, they had a child every one to two years. So let’s say...

1970 Boy
1971 Girl

Ethel is 43 in 1971, so I think she’s probably done, but I could see her having one last baby at 49 in 1977 ITTL.
It would not shock me if she kept having kids until ‘77 either. Wouldn’t even shock me if she's even pushed out twins at some point.

For name suggestions, maybe James Edward Kennedy for the 1970 baby, and probably Patrica for the 1971 baby.
I like these ideas :) Let's go with them for now. Bobby and Ethel have a total of Thirteen Children then by the end of 1971 ITTL.

Their children are:
Kathleen
Joseph
Robert, Jr.
David
Courtney
Michael
Kerry
Christopher
Max
Douglas
Rory
James
Patricia
Wonderful Day Mr. @President_Lincoln, I've just read this from your previous thread in 2018 and you've officially planned it that Bobby and Ethel have 12th and 13th Children after Rory ITTL. If I get this accurately, their youngest son James Edward Kennedy is now 12 and their youngest daughter Patricia Eunice Kennedy is now 11 as of 1982 ITTL. What month and day would it be if they're born ITTL? That's my question for you Your Excellency and have a wonderful day genius.
 
Wonderful Day Mr. @President_Lincoln, I've just read this from your previous thread in 2018 and you've officially planned it that Bobby and Ethel have 12th and 13th Children after Rory ITTL. If I get this accurately, their youngest son James Edward Kennedy is now 12 and their youngest daughter Patricia Eunice Kennedy is now 11 as of 1982 ITTL. What month and day would it be if they're born ITTL? That's my question for you Your Excellency and have a wonderful day genius.
I think he may have changed his mind because I asked him a similar question on this thread and he said he thinks they may have stopped after Rory but I guess we'll what he says in response to your question.
 
I'm not sure that would work. Helms could possibly be able to paint him as a carpetbarger who doesn't really know North Carolina.
Not a bad point, though I feel like that would really work the best if Meredith had moved to North Carolina specifically to primary him, which isn't what I was implying.
 
Not a bad point, though I feel like that would really work the best if Meredith had moved to North Carolina specifically to primary him, which isn't what I was implying.
Oh yeah no of course not. But I feel like if someone is gonna beat Helms they're gonna really need to know North Carolina, and be able to fend off against whatever attacks Helms puts out there. Helms is a political animal when he goes into attack more you need to be ready to fight against it.
 
Oh yeah no of course not. But I feel like if someone is gonna beat Helms they're gonna really need to know North Carolina, and be able to fend off against whatever attacks Helms puts out there. Helms is a political animal when he goes into attack more you need to be ready to fight against it.
Based on what I've read about Helms, have to agree with you. He's gonna need to be challenged by someone who knows the state extremely well, something Meredith wouldn't.
 
Based on what I've read about Helms, have to agree with you. He's gonna need to be challenged by someone who knows the state extremely well, something Meredith wouldn't.
Fair enough, though even if it's not Meredith, I do like the idea that even other Republicans start getting sick of Jesse Helms's shit.
 
Fair enough, though even if it's not Meredith, I do like the idea that even other Republicans start getting sick of Jesse Helms's shit.
I do too. I mean besides his gay bashing, his sexism and open racism is just some of the worst I have ever read. And the fact that he used his religious beliefs as justification. I swear it's people like him that give some religious people a bad rep.
 
I do too. I mean besides his gay bashing, his sexism and open racism is just some of the worst I have ever read. And the fact that he used his religious beliefs as justification. I swear it's people like him that give some religious people a bad rep.
Since you're saying the primary idea would only work if the person running is from North Carolina, then I do have another: Charles Kuralt. Admittedly his political affiliations aren't clear, but I'd imagine it would be hard to for Helms to smear a respected journalist.

Results of this could either be that Helms wins but is weakened political and Harvey Gantt goes in for the kills or Kuralt wins and Gantt wins and the Senate race is respectable regardless of who wins.
 
Since you're saying the primary idea would only work if the person running is from North Carolina, then I do have another: Charles Kuralt. Admittedly his political affiliations aren't clear, but I'd imagine it would be hard to for Helms to smear a respected journalist.

Results of this could either be that Helms wins but is weakened political and Harvey Gantt goes in for the kills or Kuralt wins and Gantt wins and the Senate race is respectable regardless of who wins.
That's a good idea actually. If Kuralt runs as an independent he could siphon votes away from Helms and Gantt could win.
 
maybe Harvey Gantt could give it an early go
The single term Mayor of North Carolina who was elected in 1983? That is a bit of a stretch, even if you wanted to wank this to the high heavens. Gantt would look more prime to challenge East for the Senate by 1986 or run for Governor in 1988 or 1992. Unless you get some sort of "Three Mile Island" incident where Gantt saves the day, you're better off with Jim Hunt taking down Helms (maybe have some sort of incident in NC to allow the GOP to abandon Helms)
Just another idea, but what if James Meredith moved to the state, ran a primary campaign against Helms and won in an upset?
Like PRM said, Meredith's connection to NC is getting an internship from Helms. Best case of a POD would be to have had Meredith build a legal/political career in NC instead of NY or MS. Maybe he could seek a judicial appointment from Kennedy as a conservative bone to throw for GOP votes in legislation and Meredith rises as a potential SCOUTS judge?
Based on what I've read about Helms, have to agree with you. He's gonna need to be challenged by someone who knows the state extremely well, something Meredith wouldn't.
Like I said, unless defeated, Hunt was the best guy. With a strong Democratic White House, Hunt could gain the support he was lacking to become U.S. Senator here in 1984
That's a good idea actually. If Kuralt runs as an independent he could siphon votes away from Helms and Gantt could win.
Again, without some massive story to put Charlotte in the national spotlight, all Kuralt will do is merely be a vote siphon for, at best, white liberals, giving Helms a larger margin of victory than OTL. Put Hunt in and, maybe, you get a close race that could hurt Helms, but could very well help him all the same. It would make the state a bellweather, if nothing else. Admittedly, there could be an instance of the Democrats, in somehow having no strong candidate, backing an independent candidacy of Kuralt
 
The single term Mayor of North Carolina who was elected in 1983? That is a bit of a stretch, even if you wanted to wank this to the high heavens. Gantt would look more prime to challenge East for the Senate by 1986 or run for Governor in 1988 or 1992. Unless you get some sort of "Three Mile Island" incident where Gantt saves the day, you're better off with Jim Hunt taking down Helms (maybe have some sort of incident in NC to allow the GOP to abandon Helms)

Like PRM said, Meredith's connection to NC is getting an internship from Helms. Best case of a POD would be to have had Meredith build a legal/political career in NC instead of NY or MS. Maybe he could seek a judicial appointment from Kennedy as a conservative bone to throw for GOP votes in legislation and Meredith rises as a potential SCOUTS judge?

Like I said, unless defeated, Hunt was the best guy. With a strong Democratic White House, Hunt could gain the support he was lacking to become U.S. Senator here in 1984

Again, without some massive story to put Charlotte in the national spotlight, all Kuralt will do is merely be a vote siphon for, at best, white liberals, giving Helms a larger margin of victory than OTL. Put Hunt in and, maybe, you get a close race that could hurt Helms, but could very well help him all the same. It would make the state a bellweather, if nothing else. Admittedly, there could be an instance of the Democrats, in somehow having no strong candidate, backing an independent candidacy of Kuralt
Darn it your right. Well it is an Presidential Election year and Hunt could ride RFK's landside victory coattails to a victory. Gantt could definitely run in 1986. Whoever the candidate is I just want Helms gone from the senate and not let the door hit his bigoted behind on the way out.
 
Again, without some massive story to put Charlotte in the national spotlight, all Kuralt will do is merely be a vote siphon for, at best, white liberals, giving Helms a larger margin of victory than OTL. Put Hunt in and, maybe, you get a close race that could hurt Helms, but could very well help him all the same. It would make the state a bellweather, if nothing else. Admittedly, there could be an instance of the Democrats, in somehow having no strong candidate, backing an independent candidacy of Kuralt
My idea was essentially that Kuralt runs in the Republican primary, backed GOP voters and donors who can tell that the party needs to move away from guys like Helms. Reagan's staunch conservatism is likely what tons of Republicans think cost them the Presidency a few years ago, so the might start getting weary of a guy whose even more hard right.
 
My idea was essentially that Kuralt runs in the Republican primary, backed GOP voters and donors who can tell that the party needs to move away from guys like Helms. Reagan's staunch conservatism is likely what tons of Republicans think cost them the Presidency a few years ago, so the might start getting weary of a guy whose even more hard right.
Oh that could also work.
 
Hey @President_Lincoln I was just wondering how many grandchildren already have at this point? I remember reading something about grandchildren in the 1980 election and the question just popped into my head.
 
Hey @President_Lincoln I was just wondering how many grandchildren already have at this point? I remember reading something about grandchildren in the 1980 election and the question just popped into my head.
Hello! :) To confirm/clarify, Bobby and Ethel Kennedy still have the same 11 children that they had IOTL and no more. Rory, the youngest (born in 1968), was their last. At the moment, the President and First Lady gave four grandchildren: two granddaughters by their eldest daughter, Kathleen; and fraternal twin grandsons by their eldest son, Joseph P. Kennedy II.

Apologies for the lack of update this week. I've been very busy with wrapping up the school year and transitioning to "summer mode". Expect the next update sometime in the next few days.
 
Hello! :) To confirm/clarify, Bobby and Ethel Kennedy still have the same 11 children that they had IOTL and no more. Rory, the youngest (born in 1968), was their last. At the moment, the President and First Lady gave four grandchildren: two granddaughters by their eldest daughter, Kathleen; and fraternal twin grandsons by their eldest son, Joseph P. Kennedy II.

Apologies for the lack of update this week. I've been very busy with wrapping up the school year and transitioning to "summer mode". Expect the next update sometime in the next few days.
Np, take your time. The wait is always worth it.
 
Hello! :) To confirm/clarify, Bobby and Ethel Kennedy still have the same 11 children that they had IOTL and no more. Rory, the youngest (born in 1968), was their last. At the moment, the President and First Lady gave four grandchildren: two granddaughters by their eldest daughter, Kathleen; and fraternal twin grandsons by their eldest son, Joseph P. Kennedy II.

Apologies for the lack of update this week. I've been very busy with wrapping up the school year and transitioning to "summer mode". Expect the next update sometime in the next few days.
Understandable, take your time.
 
Hello! :) To confirm/clarify, Bobby and Ethel Kennedy still have the same 11 children that they had IOTL and no more. Rory, the youngest (born in 1968), was their last. At the moment, the President and First Lady gave four grandchildren: two granddaughters by their eldest daughter, Kathleen; and fraternal twin grandsons by their eldest son, Joseph P. Kennedy II.

Apologies for the lack of update this week. I've been very busy with wrapping up the school year and transitioning to "summer mode". Expect the next update sometime in the next few days.
Understandable, take your time sir. Real life takes priority after all .
 
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