Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
What are Angela Davis, Yuri Kochiyama, and other similar people like them doing ITTL?
Good update, @President_Lincoln, and, with all that's been going on, we needed the distraction...
Like what Udall is doing so far; wonder if he'll have better luck than Carter did...
I hope the "Rainbow Coalition" is more successful than it was OTL--Bernie Sanders will soon be joining Dellums and Jackson, methinks, if he hasn't already...
Glad Bundy got caught; hope he gets executed...
The song "Stayin' Alive" was sung by the Bee Gees and released in December of 1977, so congrats for continuing the pattern, @President_Lincoln...
Waiting for more, of course...
Like what Udall is doing so far; wonder if he'll have better luck than Carter did...
I hope the "Rainbow Coalition" is more successful than it was OTL--Bernie Sanders will soon be joining Dellums and Jackson, methinks, if he hasn't already...
Glad Bundy got caught; hope he gets executed...
The song "Stayin' Alive" was sung by the Bee Gees and released in December of 1977, so congrats for continuing the pattern, @President_Lincoln...
Waiting for more, of course...
Congratulations to @President_Lincoln and this TL for winning Best Quote for "Lady Bird is going to fucking kill me for this"!
(yes it's by default, but that still says something, that nobody had a favorite quote that they wanted to nominate except for that one!)
(yes it's by default, but that still says something, that nobody had a favorite quote that they wanted to nominate except for that one!)
It's a close race, but Blue Skies is in first place for the Turtledoves! Let's help this timeline win! 
Yeeeeeaaaaaaaah!It's a close race, but Blue Skies is in first place for the Turtledoves! Let's help this timeline win!
Thank you all for the kind words regarding the last update and for voting for TTL in the Turtledove polls! If you have not voted already, I humbly implore that you consider Blue Skies as your vote.
Thank you to @Worffan101 for nominating LBJ's last words for the best quote Turtledove. I am quite happy to hear that Lyndon's final thoughts are Turtledove worthy.
Here's hoping the polls hold! But good luck as well to the rest of the nominees. Thank you all again for your support!
Thank you to @Worffan101 for nominating LBJ's last words for the best quote Turtledove. I am quite happy to hear that Lyndon's final thoughts are Turtledove worthy.
Here's hoping the polls hold! But good luck as well to the rest of the nominees.
Thank you all again for your support!
Fantastic update like usual, perhaps in the next election cycle we may see Nixon , Ford and Hillary Rodham/Bush face off in the next election cycle(or maybe one will become the others running mate). Speaking of political happenings, do you think the split of both the Republican and Democratic parties make things a bit more bipartisan in this timeline?
@President_Lincoln
Since the Dallas Situation went down differently ITTL, may I ask, what happened to James Tague, J. D. Tippit, Jack Ruby, Clint Hill, Abraham Zapruder, Nellie Connally, and Howard Brennan? How were their lives changed? (I was originally just going to ask about the first three, but then dug up some more info on Wikipedia and ended up with seven instead.)
Also, how have the Basque, Catalans, and Galicians been doing since the downfall of fascism in Spain?
Thank you, and good luck with the Turtledoves!
Since the Dallas Situation went down differently ITTL, may I ask, what happened to James Tague, J. D. Tippit, Jack Ruby, Clint Hill, Abraham Zapruder, Nellie Connally, and Howard Brennan? How were their lives changed? (I was originally just going to ask about the first three, but then dug up some more info on Wikipedia and ended up with seven instead.)
Also, how have the Basque, Catalans, and Galicians been doing since the downfall of fascism in Spain?
Thank you, and good luck with the Turtledoves!
I have the bad feeling that the Romneys might inherit the bad luck the Kennedys had IOTL...
Here is a list of famous people born in 1977, can't wait for them to appear in this timeline
You know @President_Lincoln, I’m kind of curious about something. How is the regular public reacting to JFK’s current physical condition ITTL (the fact he’s noticeably aged even further after leaving office and is now in a wheelchair). I know he kept his complex medical history and medical issues private, and refused to confirm them when he was alive. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, after knowledge/information that he had Addison’s disease came to light after his election in 1960, he lied and denied it was true.
So in that case, how are the Kennedy’s explaining Jack’s current condition? I can’t imagine they’re entirely willing to tell the truth of JFK’s state while he’s still alive.
Part of me thinks that if the Kennedy’s are willing to try and cover up the real reason, I can imagine the Kennedy’s “leaking” information to the press that suggests that JFK’s current condition is actually him suffering from lingering complications caused by the attempted assassination in Dallas. It possibly wouldn’t even be entirely inaccurate, as it’s likely the attempted assassination wounds might have caused lingering issues/complications with JFK’s Addison disease if he survived like he did ITTL.
So in that case, how are the Kennedy’s explaining Jack’s current condition? I can’t imagine they’re entirely willing to tell the truth of JFK’s state while he’s still alive.
Part of me thinks that if the Kennedy’s are willing to try and cover up the real reason, I can imagine the Kennedy’s “leaking” information to the press that suggests that JFK’s current condition is actually him suffering from lingering complications caused by the attempted assassination in Dallas. It possibly wouldn’t even be entirely inaccurate, as it’s likely the attempted assassination wounds might have caused lingering issues/complications with JFK’s Addison disease if he survived like he did ITTL.
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Very happy to see this timeline back on! While it saddens me to see the Buckleyites not as preeminent as they became by now, at least in grassroots infrastructure, with all that has transpired it’s pretty obvious that nothing is the same, especially with American universal healthcare.
Very interested in seeing how a Nixon run for President in 1980 will play out, for sure. I suppose Reagan is out for the count, for a while?
Very interested in seeing how a Nixon run for President in 1980 will play out, for sure. I suppose Reagan is out for the count, for a while?
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Abit of a morbid idea, but what if the events leading up to the removal of the Confed statues in the South happened a decade or two earlier ITTL? Leading to a version of Charrolettesvile happening in the 90s or 00s?
@President_Lincoln
Since the Dallas Situation went down differently ITTL, may I ask, what happened to James Tague, J. D. Tippit, Jack Ruby, Clint Hill, Abraham Zapruder, Nellie Connally, and Howard Brennan? How were their lives changed? (I was originally just going to ask about the first three, but then dug up some more info on Wikipedia and ended up with seven instead.)
Also, how have the Basque, Catalans, and Galicians been doing since the downfall of fascism in Spain?
Thank you, and good luck with the Turtledoves!
Hey @TheDetailer! Please allow me to try and answer your questions.
James Tague was still injured in a manner similar to what he suffered IOTL (getting hit by debris from a bullet which missed the Presidential limousine). Thankfully, he was not seriously wounded, however, and would eventually recover.
Officer Tippit survived, as Oswald's entire escape plan was vastly changed by his failure to kill JFK. Oswald stole a Ford truck from an innocent bystander and eventually wounded several Texas Rangers during his capture. Tragically, in addition to Governor Connally, Oswald also killed Deputy Paul Dana, a Dallas County Deputy Sheriff.
Because Oswald failed in his attempt to assassinate the President, Jack Ruby's name would never enter the public lexicon in the way it did IOTL. Instead, he simply continued to manage the Carousel club until his passing from a pulmonary embolism in 1967, at the age of 55.
Clint Hill remains a decorated Secret Service agent, whose act of bravery in Dallas still occurred, as he ran to protect the First Lady and President from additional shots. He rode in the car and helped Jackie bring President Kennedy to the OR once they reached the hospital.
Abraham Zapruder's film, the only known recording of the assassination attempt, was used as evidence in Oswald's subsequent trial. He was interviewed by various media outlets for being on the seen, but after Oswald's conviction, Zapruder largely disappeared from the public spotlight. He lived out the rest of his days in peace and passed away in 1970.
The widowed Nellie Connally has never fully ceased in her grieving for her husband. To carry on his memory, however, she has taken on a "career" of sorts raising money for various charities and serving on their boards of directors as well. These activities have kept her active well into the 1970's, and as of '77, she is currently serving as the head of the Texas Historical Commission.
Howard Brennan, after identifying a sniper in the Book Depository as he did IOTL, retired to a relatively quiet life in Dallas. He also testified for the prosecution during Oswald's trial.
With the downfall of Franco's fascist regime, Catalonia, Galicia, the Basque Country, and the various other "autonomous areas" of Spain are slowly beginning to see a return to their prior recognition and rights. Franco's regime sought to suppress these areas' unique cultural and political identities and heritages, but with King Juan Carlos now in power and the restoration of democracy, a socially liberal government, which believes in the importance of diversity and self-expression has begun to push for more understanding and better treatment. Though the Catalan language, for example, would officially remained "banned" in public usage until 1979, once the ban was lifted, signs, buses, trains, and all public services would once again be offered in Catalan.
Hey there @Nerdman3000! An excellent question.
I think your analysis is spot on. The Kennedys (including Jack himself) have faced increased scrutiny by the public ITTL. JFK surviving in and of itself has removed much of the "Kennedy mystique", as have the revelations surrounding Bobby's first year and a half as Attorney General. Jack's no longer "a good man who could have been a great leader". Like his hero and ideological forerunner FDR, JFK served his full terms and lived to face old age and the judgement of history. While history has mostly been kind to him, especially forgiving his infidelities and praising his many achievements (especially Civil Rights, the Space Race, the War on Poverty, and Medicare/Medicaid), they have also been able to more squarely focus on his faults (including his personal sexism, and early foreign policy bungles like the Bay of Pigs). By 1977, his reputation is somewhat partisan, though the further we go from his leaving office in 1969, the more bipartisan "nostalgia" appeal he is having. Imagine his reputation among Democrats (and some Republicans) ITTL to be similar (if more deserved) to Ronald Reagan's among Republicans (and some Democrats) IOTL. He's sort of the great, titanic figure of the party, and in many ways, the one (along with FDR) that Democrats try to model themselves after.
As for his health, the family is not only claiming that his condition has deteriorated faster than expected because of the lingering effects of the assassination attempt, they are also severely limiting the access the media and public at large has to him in his twilight years. Bobby and Ted are splitting many of his responsibilities as family patriarch, and the public is largely under the impression that former President Kennedy simply spends most of his days reading and writing. Jackie and family friend Judy Garland keep JFK company and help to keep his intellect stimulated, and he does occasionally submit letters to major newspapers to be published as editorials. John Jr. takes his dad on short sailing trips around the family compound in Hyannis Port during the summer, and Caroline turns to him at every opportunity for advice about her own chosen career path. Meanwhile, nannies mostly care for he and Jackie's two younger children: Rosemary and Robert.
I don't want to get too into this, as I'm afraid this is likely "current politics" and a mite too controversial for a typical thread, but I will say that unfortunately political extremism is not DEAD in the world of Blue Skies. Much as I would like it to be, I feel it would be unrealistic to assume that there would be no push back against the social progress being made at some point. Though the late 70's (and perhaps the early 80's...) are shaping up to be another progressive decade after the relatively status quo, "malaise" of the 1970's, there are forces at work in the country who are "fed up" with social progress and are waiting for their time to strike. After all, there is AN OPENLY GAY CONGRESSMAN in 1977 in Harvey Milk, of California. This is, of course, excellent news to be celebrated! But not everyone at the time will see things that way. I plan to cover the "Culture Wars" in depth as they erupt across the next several years. Stay tuned.
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Thank you for answering me and Nerd's questions, Mr. President.
Good luck with the next chapter! We'll stay tuned!
Good luck with the next chapter! We'll stay tuned!
Looking forward to more Blue Skies @President_Lincoln
One of the most entertaining threads on AH imho.
One of the most entertaining threads on AH imho.