Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond

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Ogrebear

Ogrebear

Good update there @President_Lincoln

USSR seemed to throw away a good thing there- get out of power Andropov!

Hopefully we will see the Soviet Union and China both forge a different path from OTL.

Maggie seems to be charting a very OTL path even if elected earlier. Though earlier privatisation may stop the worst of the 70's rot and allow for investment and new technology that helps maintain UK manufacturing economy as the rivals of the 80's are not in place yet. Though "...followed by years of corruption, mismanagement, inefficiency, and private monopolization in the water, gas, steel, and electricity industries to be endured by British consumers" does not sound exactly positive. Hopefully Healey and his Labour Party will reverse the worst of these once they can get back into power.

I expect BR will find their budgets frozen or slashed under Thatcher, unless they can make a solid case for more electrification infrastructure, an expert like @SadSprinter or @Devvy may be able to advise more on how BR does in this period under an early Thatcher govt.

Good for Mexico.
 

SadSprinter

Ogrebear said:
Good update there @President_Lincoln

USSR seemed to throw away a good thing there- get out of power Andropov!

Hopefully we will see the Soviet Union and China both forge a different path from OTL.

Maggie seems to be charting a very OTL path even if elected earlier. Though earlier privatisation may stop the worst of the 70's rot and allow for investment and new technology that helps maintain UK manufacturing economy as the rivals of the 80's are not in place yet. Though "...followed by years of corruption, mismanagement, inefficiency, and private monopolization in the water, gas, steel, and electricity industries to be endured by British consumers" does not sound exactly positive. Hopefully Healey and his Labour Party will reverse the worst of these once they can get back into power.

I expect BR will find their budgets frozen or slashed under Thatcher, unless they can make a solid case for more electrification infrastructure, an expert like @SadSprinter or @Devvy may be able to advise more on how BR does in this period under an early Thatcher govt.

Good for Mexico.
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I'd imagine in a dire financial situation for BR in the 1970s, to avoid privatisation, you'd probably see a massive rationalisation of regional and cross-country routes in favour of London bound Intercity routes, more line and station closurses and a massive push towards leisure and off-peak travel as seen in the 1980s. It would essentially have to revert to the 1980s profit driven business model much earlier than it did in OTL.
 
Alpha-King98760

Alpha-King98760

Wow! That was a great update!!! Interesting times for China, the Soviet Union, Canada & Mexico. I hope Labour wins in the UK when elections come around. Early Scottish devolution by Thatcher of all people? I must say I am surprised.
 
President_Lincoln

President_Lincoln

I can confirm that early devolution has officially been retconned for the time being. :) As mentioned before, I will cover the topic in detail during the next UK update in Act III.
 

JamesHunter

President_Lincoln said:
I can confirm that early devolution has officially been retconned for the time being. :) As mentioned before, I will cover the topic in detail during the next UK update in Act III.
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Something for Labour if they kick Maggie from office I guess. If they avoid the suicide note they're shooting at an open goal with the mess her antics are making.
 

King_Arthur

Worffan101 said:
I agree that the Scottish devolution should've been more of a fight, potentially leading to the fall of Thatcher's government in a Brexit-esque crisis with Scotland threatening secession and an empowered, left-wing Labour and resurgent LibDem party clawing votes from the Tories in critical constituencies.
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Scotland wouldn't threaten secession. The SNP were tiny in the 70s, even if Scotland won in 74 they would remain so. Scotland in 1976 was not Catalonia in 2017. The Central Belt was Labour heartland, while the Highlands and Islands were Liberal territory. Neither would be stupid enough to try and secede. The problem with an empowered left wing Labour is that it has always been two parties within each other and is only truly unified under a popular leader such as Attlee or Blair pre 2003. There was no such figure in the late 70s/early 80s in Labour. When they did go left under Foot, we got the SDP. If Benn became Leader it would be Foot writ large. Also, the Liberals (Lib Dems didn't exist until 1988) were a small party from 1931ish to 1987 or so. They basically need Labour to be unpopular to do well, like in 2005, 2010 or the 2019 European Elections. @President_Lincoln if you need any advice about Britain in this period then I'd be welcome to help.
 

Pyro

There's a reason why I have heard people say that Stanfield was the greatest prime minister never had. I look forward to see how he deals with the issue of separatism in Quebec and the possibility of a referendum as the Parti Quebecois formed the provincial government in 1976 OTL. One other noticeable side effect is that Stanfield's premiership may have likely nipped western alienation in bud as there would be no National Energy Program to create resentment in Alberta.

However, I will be interested in seeing if David Crombie and the tories will try and repatriate the constitution as PET's Liberals did in OTL.
 
President_Lincoln

President_Lincoln

Leafninja91 said:
Ya I remember that, but what happens to him after he is succeeded.
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Similar to IOTL, Khrushchev passed away of a heart attack in September of 1971. Unlike IOTL however, he was given a magnificent state funeral and full honors by the Andropov regime. He was buried in the Kremlin, memorial pieces were written in Pravda, as well as Western papers. Most famously of all, former President John F. Kennedy wrote a touching eulogy for Khrushchev which he submitted as an "editorial" of sorts to the Boston Globe.

In his eulogy, Kennedy said of Khrushchev:

"He opened the door and windows of a tomb-like Soviet state, petrified by Stalinism, and let in fresh ideas and the possibility of peace and progress. He was never a perfect leader, nor a faultless man. I disagreed with many of the things he did. But he was a tremendous leader, and I will always hold him as my partner on the road to a more peaceful world."
 

President Earl Warren

So one question on the Sino Soviet split, how is Zhou rationalizing the about face to Socialist market economy? Is he doing what they did in OTL (saying he was 60 percent right and 30 percent wrong) it are they taking a different path? Also if the Soviet Embassy can be bombed for "revisonism" that makes me more than A bit anxious about what may happen if they decide to go after the "traitors and revisionists who cozy up to the USA"
 
Worffan101

Worffan101

What exactly is the structure of the reforming Chinese economy? Is Zhou trying a shift to locally-run cooperatives or some kind of heavily state-regulated semi-privatized thing going on?
 

arrowiv

I wonder if the 1976 Montreal Olympics in this TL are more better organized in this TL than in TL. Of course, we will still have Nadia and Bruce/Caitlyn but probably the host country Canada winning some gold as well ( they did not in RL, regretfully). Also a better organized Montreal Olympiad would have better financing and more corporate sponsorship. Don't forget it just about took twenty years just to get the roof finished on the Montreal Olympic Stadium!
 
Pokemon Master

Pokemon Master

arrowiv said:
I wonder if the 1976 Montreal Olympics in this TL are more better organized in this TL than in TL. Of course, we will still have Nadia and Bruce/Caitlyn but probably the host country Canada winning some gold as well ( they did not in RL, regretfully). Also a better organized Montreal Olympiad would have better financing and more corporate sponsorship. Don't forget it just about took twenty years just to get the roof finished on the Montreal Olympic Stadium!
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and that may lead to the chance of the Montreal Expos staying around ITTL
 
Worffan101

Worffan101

One thing Zhou could do to fix the Chinese economy is to institute a form of workers' self-management. Basically, have the state-owned industries and the central planners open dialogue with representatives of various industrial and agricultural communities. The government essentially negotiates with the people to figure out how to go forward with the economy. Downside for Zhou is that this makes keeping control of the state more difficult long-term and is very much against the precepts of Stalinist/Maoist communism, and could limit the speed of industrial development, plus side is that it means much less energy needs to be wasted suppressing dissent and industrial development will likely be more stable and sustainable.

Another good idea would be a massive education initiative--one focused on educating the populace as a whole rather than re-instituting hypercompetitive exams. If he front-loads this with subtle government propaganda, he can probably mix this with self-management to raise the next generation as loyal and reasonably educated Party men. It won't last forever but it buys time for the Party and state without forcing them to borrow heavily to support a massive industrial program and nationalist propaganda initiative, and reduces the need for cartoon villain levels of repression.
 
Electric Monk

Electric Monk

arrowiv said:
I wonder if the 1976 Montreal Olympics in this TL are more better organized in this TL than in TL.
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The Los Angeles level of corporate sponsorship wasn’t considered as far as I know. Both arrogance and incompetence. The additional burdens of corruption and criminal involvement will likely make the issue intractable. Obviously many of the specific local issues and political players may be changed—but like best case is still expensive and corrupt. I might have missed it, is it confirmed Montreal still gets them ITTL?

(Quick background reading for those unfamiliar with the problems. I lived in Montreal for half a decade and will attest that people’s memories of it were even worse than described below lol.)
Montreal Gazette
 
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arrowiv

I have also read that the other candidate besides Montreal when the IOC bestowed the 1976 Games award in 1970 was none other than LA!
One other way to make the 1976 Montreal Olympiad to be more successful is to not to have the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team touring South Africa so soon after the 1976 Soweto uprising. That tour resulted in a big walkout by African nations for the 1976 games.
 
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