I looks like Helsinki will take some of the wind out of the sails of Reagan's primary challenge. Should the economy keep out of a recession and barring any foreign policy disasters, Romney seems to have a shot at a second term (the ultimate democratic nominee will also matter a lot though). Hopefully the continued communist aid to North Vietnam won't create any larger problems down the road, even if it does keep the region less than stable for the foreseeable future.
Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Great update. It could've gone better. Romney got a bit over confident at the end.
Good update, @President_Lincoln...
Sounds like the Cambodia/Southeast Asia quagmire will continue...
At least space cooperation and the ABM treaty got signed...
Hope Romney beats Reagan and...oh, no, Arthur Bremer is going to target Romney, isn't he, assuming that hasn't been butterflied away (IOTL, he tried to kill Nixon in Ottawa (1), but security was too tight; then he targeted Wallace)?
I agree with @Kaiser Julius regarding Senator No (the nickname for Jesse Helms)...
BTW, the song "(If Loving You is Wrong) I Don't Want to Be Right" was sung by Luther Ingram and released in April of 1972, so congrats for continuing the pattern, @President_Lincoln, and waiting for more?
What's John Schmitz up to (aka the father of none other than Mary Kay Letourneau...)?
Sounds like the Cambodia/Southeast Asia quagmire will continue...
At least space cooperation and the ABM treaty got signed...
Hope Romney beats Reagan and...oh, no, Arthur Bremer is going to target Romney, isn't he, assuming that hasn't been butterflied away (IOTL, he tried to kill Nixon in Ottawa (1), but security was too tight; then he targeted Wallace)?
I agree with @Kaiser Julius regarding Senator No (the nickname for Jesse Helms)...
BTW, the song "(If Loving You is Wrong) I Don't Want to Be Right" was sung by Luther Ingram and released in April of 1972, so congrats for continuing the pattern, @President_Lincoln, and waiting for more?
What's John Schmitz up to (aka the father of none other than Mary Kay Letourneau...)?
Great stuff, @President_Lincoln 
That's for sure... He seriously missed the mark.
I agree. The way it'll look - especially once the friendly media get to work - will be 'Romney went to Helsinki, he played hardball and got a win on the ABM treaty, and those perfidious Soviets were...well, perfidious'. It'll play well with conservative elements.
I still think Nixon's likely going to end up as POTUS, at some point...
Long-term...Giap isn't Kim il-Sung, I don't see North Vietnam going the way North Korea did. More like an Asian East Germany, one way or the other it'll probably rejoin with the South.
That's for sure... He seriously missed the mark.
I agree. The way it'll look - especially once the friendly media get to work - will be 'Romney went to Helsinki, he played hardball and got a win on the ABM treaty, and those perfidious Soviets were...well, perfidious'. It'll play well with conservative elements.
I still think Nixon's likely going to end up as POTUS, at some point...
Long-term...Giap isn't Kim il-Sung, I don't see North Vietnam going the way North Korea did. More like an Asian East Germany, one way or the other it'll probably rejoin with the South.
Or try to kill Reagan and when Ronnie surrvives and gets loads of sympathetic news coverage, he comes back better than ever. Also Ronnie's team can now shift the campagin from Foregin relations to economic ones and rightly point out that running a War and a Huge welfare state is rather unsustainable. Another way he could bounce back would be to have Ronnie (Mr charisma) and Romney (dull as Dishwater) debate.
Nice. Shame you killed off Jeff Sessions. EdwardMarx is a fictional character, I'm sure.
Helms is currently running for the Senate seat in North Carolina, as per OTL. He's positioning himself as a Reagan-aligned, Buckley-ite conservative Republican, and hoping to slow down the progress of LBJ's New South. How it turns out there? Only time will tell...
Absolutely.
Thanks historybuff! Thank you, Unknown!
I'm thrilled you enjoyed the update. I won't say anything just yet regarding Bremer, but I can say that Romney will be putting his full heart and soul into the campaign now. Reagan and his supporters will definitely have a fight on their hands on the road to the Wisconsin Primary. Great stuff, @President_Lincoln
That's for sure... He seriously missed the mark.
I agree. The way it'll look - especially once the friendly media get to work - will be 'Romney went to Helsinki, he played hardball and got a win on the ABM treaty, and those perfidious Soviets were...well, perfidious'. It'll play well with conservative elements.
I still think Nixon's likely going to end up as POTUS, at some point...
Long-term...Giap isn't Kim il-Sung, I don't see North Vietnam going the way North Korea did. More like an Asian East Germany, one way or the other it'll probably rejoin with the South.
Thank you, @theg*ddam*hoi2fan!
Glad you enjoyed the summit update. You make some excellent points here, and I love getting to hear your analysis of each of the updates as they come out. Nixon certainly still has a chance... He's doing what he can to make himself indispensable to the GOP and President Romney especially toward that end perhaps. If he wants to run in '76, he'll likely need to compete with Vice President Bush. (assuming Romney wins a second term). They could both claim to be the heir apparent to continue Romney's legacy, but who knows how that goes? As for North Vietnam and Giap, you're right there as well, I think. It's mostly a matter now of time, patience, and careful diplomacy to see North and South hopefully reunited.
My apologies for any confusion!
I had posted another update that @King_Arthur wrote for me just a second ago but took it down for now because I have a few more edits I want to make first. It had to do with OTL figures and fictional characters who served with distinction in Cambodia.Could we suggest a few more names?My apologies for any confusion!
You all are welcome to make suggestions!
I can't promise I'll use them all, but I am happy to consider them. Feel free to PM me any ideas you would like to share.Zwinglian
Banned
Romney won the 68 debate in this tl because Humphrey made a gaffe, so he might be overconfident in his debating skills and agree to have one with Reagan
Well, that certainly ought to stop Reagan's primary challenge, but it could easily cost the election. Pity Romney flubbed the Vietnam issue, he should've put feelers out to Giap first and let the Vietnamese play ball on their terms. Now he's got little chance of reaching out there.
Tereshkova getting into politics? Will she become leader of the USSR at some point?
Dick Cheney in a position of power? That's bad. Very, very bad.
Tereshkova getting into politics? Will she become leader of the USSR at some point?
Dick Cheney in a position of power? That's bad. Very, very bad.
Here's a idea for a debate sequence in it:
Romney: Ronald Reagan and his group of extremists, would take the Republician party in a utterly wrong and radical direction. If they were in charge they would cut welfare for millions, push us towards further confrontaion with the Soviet Union and turn away millions of minority voters. The public won't stand for that, and Im quite certain the Republician party won't stand for it.
Reagan: There you go again Mr president. You can't quite stop calling us Conservatives extremists can you. Is it extreme to want to stop spending away our children's futures?is it extreme to want to stop the Communist empire at every possible objective and not give them first hand looks at technology which could be used for Missiles (reffering to the space program) is it extreme to want Law and Order on the streets of our cities? Are the citizens of California,who voted me in twice abunch of "extremists" or are they so dumb that they are duped? I think we should get past the labels and innuendo to actually get to discussing the issues. I'm willing to do so, Are you?
Romney: Ronald Reagan and his group of extremists, would take the Republician party in a utterly wrong and radical direction. If they were in charge they would cut welfare for millions, push us towards further confrontaion with the Soviet Union and turn away millions of minority voters. The public won't stand for that, and Im quite certain the Republician party won't stand for it.
Reagan: There you go again Mr president. You can't quite stop calling us Conservatives extremists can you. Is it extreme to want to stop spending away our children's futures?is it extreme to want to stop the Communist empire at every possible objective and not give them first hand looks at technology which could be used for Missiles (reffering to the space program) is it extreme to want Law and Order on the streets of our cities? Are the citizens of California,who voted me in twice abunch of "extremists" or are they so dumb that they are duped? I think we should get past the labels and innuendo to actually get to discussing the issues. I'm willing to do so, Are you?
Hope so. Cheney's time in power roughly equal to the length of Reagan's tenure as a credible politician? It would be hilariously ironic if Reagan discredits himself in a debate against Romney (by coming off as the crazy right-wing radical to Romney's stolid moderate) about the same time Cheney kills his career.
Theirs also a way Ronnie could go after romney on Helenski grounds. Just ask him "in Helenski Mr President did you ever discuss Human Rights in Poland,the Baltic countries, Ukraine or Cheszlovakia?"when Romney's forced to say no, Reagan can cry that he's ignoring Human rights for his grand vision. Add in a embarrassing gaffe by Nixon, who would scoff at the very idea that Human rights should be a factor in diplomacy, and Ronnie has a effective attack line especially for the Eastern European demographics.
True...
TBH, I think that's how it'll go. I mean, let's face it. Romney's shown apparent strength at Helsinki, and he's acted decisively to contain Communism and shut down a particularly nasty variant of the Red Menace (TM). Add to that the disinclination of people in general and Americans in particular to change horses mid-race, and I really don't see Reagan managing a successful challenge to Romney. People will prefer a non-flashy guy with a proven success rate over someone who hasn't shown any real ability thus far.
Plus, I'd say that if Reagan did manage a successful challenge, the Democrats would end up winning.