Bloody Disaster at Evesham

It was a grim morning of August 4th, 1265 for Simon de Montfort. Having been slowed down at Evesham because of the King his ragtag rebel army now had been trapped in a vulnerable position with their backs to a river, blocking any escape. A royal army had formed at the crest of a nearby hill, outnumbering them greatly. And if that wasn't enough, a severe thunderstorm had begun, as if God Himself was angry on this day. Simon knew he had no realistic chances of survival. His English troops were tired and scared, and the several thousand Welshmen his ally Llywelyn ap Gruffydd had sent him were demoralized, unwilling to die for an English squabble. With their backs to the wall, Simon delivered a speech that nevertheless rallied his army to fighting spirit once more. And he had a plan. Leading with cavalry, followed by the men-at-arms, sergeants, and levied militias on foot, themselves followed by the unreliable Welshmen, Simon planned to drive a wedge through the solid royal lines and escape, if not flank and rout the royal army altogether.

But it was not to be. Edward, who was commanding the royal force, was no fool like his father, and the royal lines were strong and firm. With Montfort's former ally Gilbert de Clare, Earl of Gloucester, commanding his right flank while he held the left, they stood on the top of Green Hill and awaited the baronial rebel assault. Sure enough, Simon's entire force, including the uneasy Welshmen, held firm and charged. The royal line was broken, and a glimmer of hope appeared for the rebels. But as they drove into the royal lines and smashed them, the cavalry on the flanks hit Simon's force. And then all hell broke loose.

A furious melee erupted the likes of which were unmatched in English history. Simon rode through the ranks causing a path of bloody slaughter, but he ended up unhorsed and fighting for his life on foot, back to back with his son Henry. The King, who Simon had dragged into the fight with his knights, was stumbling around in a mad panic, afraid for his life and practically crying. His panic ended when a stray arrow fired by an unknown archer flew straight into his eye, ending the life of Henry III, King of England. Elsewhere, Guy de Montfort, son of Simon, and his knights had charged towards the banner of the turncoat de Clare and killed him with a lance, only to be stabbed himself and left wounded on the battlefield. Henry, who had been separated from his father, was not so lucky and had died fighting. Simon himself had been attacked by a great multitude of men, and had eventually succumbed to a great many wounds, dying with the rest of his army. Simon's ally Peter de Montfort was also slain by this point. But Edward did not see this, and as he continued to drive at the rebels' flank, he found himself and his retinue surrounded by large force of cutthroat Welshmen, who slaughtered them with spears and bows, and killing the wounded with knives they took their armor and belongings.

Simon the Younger, second son of Simon de Montfort and the man responsible for this slaughter, arrived from Kenilworth Castle just in time to see his father's head mounted on a pike. In a furious rage, he rode down to the field and slaughtered his father's killers, redeeming himself before retreating back to Kenilworth. And so the Massacre of Evesham had ended, for battle it was not. Every commander who went into the fray now lay dead or dying upon the blood soaked fields. The King and his son, the rebel baron who had been uncrowned king for a year, two of his sons, his allies and his enemies. All dead. England was in trouble

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Sooo, I had this idea of how best to preserve Welsh independence, and it basically turned into more of an idea of how to most screw up the English. I know this seems unrealistic, but battles can be chaotic and anything can happen, especially at a massacre like Evesham with so many important people involved on this field. Henry III really was almost killed. The PoD I took for the battle is that the commanders of the Welsh troops with Simon realized that escape is not likely, and decide that this day is as good a day as they can get to kill Englishmen, and stay in the fight instead of running before it even starts. Therefore the royalist cavalry charge into the flanks isn't as successful as OTL, whereas Simon's charge is a bit more lucky, and the end result is a total massacre. The only people to survive the battle are the ones with the sense after it is done to run the hell out of there instead of continuing to kill eachother. But what really matters are the consequences.

Now I think the likely contender for the throne is Edmund Crouchback if I am not mistaken. But if am not mistaken, there will still be a civil war going on, an even worse one without any clear leadership. I know little of Crouchback, but Edward Longshanks was the one who really got things under control. Even if he was a cruel, black-hearted monster with hooves for feet, he was infinitely more competent than his bumbling father (and his imbecile of a son), but now he's dead before he gets a chance to make his mark. There are still allies of Simon who have survived, and probably plenty of greedy barons wanting more.

And England's enemies outside the borders are sure to take advantage. When the news of the bloody massacre goes out they are sure to take advantage by attacking every nearby royal garrison or English baron who ever looked at them funny. Wales at this point is stronger than it ever has been, with Llywelyn having made vassals of every other Welsh prince and without a royal army left to stop him he's free to stomp all over the Marcher Lords, especially the de Clares who lost their earl and the Mortimers. In Scotland border raids might increase, and in Ireland the English might be in a fair bit of trouble.

So, what do you guys think on this? What happens to England and their neighbors? What happens to France?
 
Cymru am Byth! I have always loved the idea of a independent Wales. I hope they colonize or at least seize Bristol and Kernew.
 
This should be interesting.

As the Chinese are so fond of saying after a disaster. :D

But yes, Edmund is the king's next son, so while royal authority may be shaken, the succession isn't.
 
Interesting fact, in his own time Llywelyn ap Gruffydd was often regarded by the Welsh as Y Mab Darogan, that is The Prophesised Son, the successor to King Arthur whose destiny was to drive out the Anglo-Saxons and reclaim the lost lands.
 
Very interesting. Please continue.

I'm not sure how long you think an independent Wales can survive, without nerfing England significantly, given the population disparity and the fact that heading through the Marches into South Wales is quite easy. However, it's a very plausible PoD in my opinion, and we can only see how things develop...
 
I was trying to get a discussion going, not a TL, I don't know enough medieval history to possibly start a decent TL on this. :p

Anyway, what I really want to know is how King Edmund would, or even could, react to the Second Anarchy. He's got rebels grouping up in the woods to continue Simon's fight, Kenilworth is still held by Simon's son, a Scottish king experienced at warfare (Alexander had just pushed back the Norwegians and consolidated the Isles) encouraging border raids and maybe extorting the northern English barons, Irish kings rebelling against English authority, and a united Wales still allied to the rebels sacking Marcher castles and taking their domains. Was Edmund any sort of competent enough to try to stop the chaos?
 
I was trying to get a discussion going, not a TL, I don't know enough medieval history to possibly start a decent TL on this. :p

Anyway, what I really want to know is how King Edmund would, or even could, react to the Second Anarchy. He's got rebels grouping up in the woods to continue Simon's fight, Kenilworth is still held by Simon's son, a Scottish king experienced at warfare (Alexander had just pushed back the Norwegians and consolidated the Isles) encouraging border raids and maybe extorting the northern English barons, Irish kings rebelling against English authority, and a united Wales still allied to the rebels sacking Marcher castles and taking their domains. Was Edmund any sort of competent enough to try to stop the chaos?

A lot depends on how much #1 is still a threat (related to #2). How many rebel supporters and rebel leaders are still alive? How much will Simon's son be able to rally support on the basis of this being a "win" vs. Edmund?

I'd expect the Irish kings to be able to temporarily break English authority just because Edmund has too much else to do to deal with them, and Edmund working to get Alexander off his back one way or another.

Those are the two most striking.
 
Beyond Simon the Younger still holding out in Kenilworth, I think Nicholas Segrave and others might've been hiding out in Sherwood Forest, I'll have to check back on that.

I did find a more complete list of those fallen at Evesham. Earl Simon de Montfort, Henry de Montfort, Peter de Montfort, Hugh Dispenser the Justiciar, William Mandeville of Essex, Walter Creppings, William Devereux of Lyonshall, Thomas Astlely, John Beauchamp of Bedford, Guy Balliol, Roger Roule, Roger St John, Gilbert Elesfield, John Dyve, William Arundel, Hugh Hopevile, Guy Bayselle, Richard Trusselle, William Birmingham, Robert Sepinges, Walter Despigny, William York and Robert Tregoz of Ewias Harold. Lord Humphrey Bohun Junior of Brecon, despite his caution, died of his wounds in October. And with this PoD you can add to the list Gilbert de Clare (Earl of Gloucester), King Henry III, Prince Edward, Roger Mortimer, and William Mautravers (who mutilated Simon's corpse). So in addition to two dead royals, you got a whole hose of dead barons and knights, including two of the most powerful March lords and a Justiciar.

As for survivors, the list is much shorter. Henry de Hastings, Walter Baskerville of Eardisley, and John Muscegros fought their way out and joined the younger Simon at Kenilworth. Peter de Montfort's sons, Nicholas Segrave, and John Fitz John also survived. John d'Eyvill rallied many of Simon's supporters to him and hid out in the Fenlands and in Sherwood Forest. Thomas fitz Thomas is still Lord Mayor of London, one of Simon's biggest allies and the entire city supported him. Simon's wife also still holds out at Dover Castle IIRC. Other supporters include Walter de Cantilupe, Bishop of Worcester, along with the Bishops of London, Lincoln, Winchester, and Chichester. Additionally, Simon promised his daughter in marriage to Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, and he might still go ahead as he did IOTL for personal reasons, sooner than OTL perhaps due to there being less trouble about it. So in addition to these guys you have all of Wales continuing to back the rebels.


 
This sounds bad.
Only if you're English. :p

What I am curious about is who the English opposing the rebels are. I don't know much about who was in the royal army at Evesham (that survives) nor who else would've been in positions of power and opposing the rebels besides King Edmund. It just occurred to me that there's also Richard to think about, Henry III's brother and King of the Romans (also known as King of the Millers). He was being held prisoner in Kenilworth Castle, and he may be killed ITTL by vengeful rebels, although he may not as well. Nevertheless, he's in the custody of Simon the Younger and probably is not getting out any time soon.
 
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Only if you're English. :p

Well, obviously. English or at best royalist.

What I am curious about is who the English opposing the rebels are. I don't know much about who was in the royal army at Evesham (that survives) nor who else would've been in positions of power and opposing the rebels besides King Edmund.

I would presume, but I don't know, that anyone not specifically on the side of the rebels is at least semi-loyal to the crown.

I think things had gone south for de Montfort by this battle, so it may mean the rebellion is still crushed. But the loss of the king, Edward, and others can't be good.
 
Well, obviously. English or at best royalist.



I would presume, but I don't know, that anyone not specifically on the side of the rebels is at least semi-loyal to the crown.

I think things had gone south for de Montfort by this battle, so it may mean the rebellion is still crushed. But the loss of the king, Edward, and others can't be good.
Hmm, on the rebel side they have bands of soldiers and brigands in the woods, the two strongest castles in England, and London itself. But on the other side there is the new King, Hereford (one of the de Bohuns died a rebel, but the rest were still royalist), and the Earl of Pembroke, William de Valence, who ITTL is notable for actually having taken part in Evesham and lived. But since Gilbert de Clare is dead, Caerphilly Castle will not be built, and his death and that of Roger Mortimer leave these two Marcher lords rather preoccupied with Llywelyn who would be proceeding to grind them into the dust. Pembroke is particularly vulnerable, being a bit cut off.
 
Hmm, on the rebel side they have bands of soldiers and brigands in the woods, the two strongest castles in England, and London itself. But on the other side there is the new King, Hereford (one of the de Bohuns died a rebel, but the rest were still royalist), and the Earl of Pembroke, William de Valence, who ITTL is notable for actually having taken part in Evesham and lived. But since Gilbert de Clare is dead, Caerphilly Castle will not be built, and his death and that of Roger Mortimer leave these two Marcher lords rather preoccupied with Llywelyn who would be proceeding to grind them into the dust. Pembroke is particularly vulnerable, being a bit cut off.

Yeah, Wales is probably secure for some time.
 
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