Blaine in 1884

[Mako-Chan]

In OTL, the election between Grover Cleveland and James G. Blaine was fairly close.

His loss is partially blamed on the withdrawal of support for his campaign by Roman Catholics, in response to perceived anti-Catholic sentiment (e.g. the Blaine Amendments). Suppose however, that Blaine had gotten elected in 1884, and possibly again in 1888.

How might history be affected? I'd imagine the butterflies would be pretty strong by the time the 1900's rolled around...

 

[Wendell]

Grover Cleveland could still end up as President...

In OTL, the election between Grover Cleveland and James G. Blaine was fairly close.

His loss is partially blamed on the withdrawal of support for his campaign by Roman Catholics, in response to perceived anti-Catholic sentiment (e.g. the Blaine Amendments). Suppose however, that Blaine had gotten elected in 1884, and possibly again in 1888.

How might history be affected? I'd imagine the butterflies would be pretty strong by the time the 1900's rolled around...

I think Cleveland could be President here from 1889-1897, possibly followed (still) by McKinley. This means that Ben Harrison will not be President. One wonders what Blaine's foreign policy will be like. Domestically, court appointments could be interesting.

 

[Mako-Chan]

I think Cleveland could be President here from 1889-1897, possibly followed (still) by McKinley. This means that Ben Harrison will not be President. One wonders what Blaine's foreign policy will be like. Domestically, court appointments could be interesting.

What about David B. Hill becoming President in 1892, assuming Blaine serves two terms (which given what I know about him, seems likely)? He could have easily gotten the Democratic Party's nomination had Cleveland not sought it..

There's also the issue of who would replace Logan as Blaine's VP. Logan died in 1886 in OTL, so he would need a replacement.

 

[Wendell]

What about David B. Hill becoming President in 1892, assuming Blaine serves two terms (which given what I know about him, seems likely)? He could have easily gotten the Democratic Party's nomination had Cleveland not sought it..

There's also the issue of who would replace Logan as Blaine's VP. Logan died in 1886 in OTL, so he would need a replacement.

Might Blaine take Ben Harrison as VP?

I like the idea of David B. Hill as the Democratic nominee in 1892...It could make a national campaign issue of the death penalty...

 

[Straha]

I don't think we'd see strong butterflies at least until for the post WWI peace in 1918 without Wilson being there.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Consider This....

While it certainly wouldn't have been the intent, consider that an ATL supporting the presidency of James G. Blaine (R-PA) tapped into a constituency that would have been nativist and anti-Catholic. During an 1884 rally for Blaine, Rev. Samuel Buchard, a Presbyterian minister, derided Democrats as "the party whose antecedents are rum, Romanism, and rebellion." Also consider that in 1887 a secret society known as the American Protective Association (APA) organized to oppose Catholics and immigrants. The APA attained its greatest strength in the Midwest.

The views of the APA in the 1880's found an able supporter in Reverend Justin Fulton. In Rome in America (1887) and Washington in the Lap of Rome (1888), Fulton revived half-a-century-old arguments that outlined the constant peril which Popery posed to the nation. The depression of 1893 further stimulated the movement as some Americans seeking a cause for their misfortunes again found an answer in tales of Papal plots. Into this ATL, consider the idea that you might have an American version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion written to discredit Democratic efforts to repeal the Blaine Amendments, or the idea of providing school vouchers to different groups....

 

[Nicole]

I don't think we'd see strong butterflies at least until for the post WWI peace in 1918 without Wilson being there.

No Wilson would probably have major affects on WW1 as well, though.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

What I am trying to create...

What people maybe wondering is what I am trying to do by bringing up the anti-Catholic sentiment? The idea is that in my opinion, the idea is that the Blaine Amendment caused a major shift in the Democratic Party, by planting the seeds for a government policy of domestic programs, while trying to open a more diverse party constituency. Consider in the ATL, the Republicans would be seen as being more libertarian and more inclusive. As such, consider the consequences carefully of a right-wing Democratic party that subscribes to many nativist and anti-immigrant polices. On the other hand, you would have a left-wing Republican Party with libertarian policies.... Imagine the changes to policies over the course of 60 years....

 

[Mako-Chan]

Mr_ Bondoc: Very interesting. How do you think the Progressive and Populist Parties would factor into all of this?

Do you think the butterflies resulting from this could lead to Thomas Watson running under the Democrats in the early 1900s? Or John Davis becoming President in the 1920's?

 

[Straha]

If the dems become a racialistic populist party then yes.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Strangely Enough...

Mr_ Bondoc: Very interesting. How do you think the Progressive and Populist Parties would factor into all of this?

Do you think the butterflies resulting from this could lead to Thomas Watson running under the Democrats in the early 1900s? Or John Davis becoming President in the 1920's?

Consider that many of the leaders of the Progressive Movement would certainly be interested in joining the Republican Party. As such, you might see Robert M. La Follete become a major GOP leader by the 1920s.

As for the issue of Populism, this would certainly lead to a more constrictive view of economics for the Democratic Party. Consider that you would certainly have the "Gold Standard" issue by William Jennings Bryan , as it did in OTL, take hold within the party. The issue of "States' Rights" POpulism, would have certainly allowed for someone like Thomas Watson to enter the White House, provided that the national ticket was balanced...

Something to consider is that the KKK revival in the 1920s, would have a stronger draw within the Democratic Party in the ATL.....

 

[Mako-Chan]

Consider that many of the leaders of the Progressive Movement would certainly be interested in joining the Republican Party. As such, you might see Robert M. La Follete become a major GOP leader by the 1920s.

Even more interesting. I wonder what a La Follete 1910's or 1920's would be like...

 

[Wendell]

While it certainly wouldn't have been the intent, consider that an ATL supporting the presidency of James G. Blaine (R-PA) tapped into a constituency that would have been nativist and anti-Catholic. During an 1884 rally for Blaine, Rev. Samuel Buchard, a Presbyterian minister, derided Democrats as "the party whose antecedents are rum, Romanism, and rebellion." Also consider that in 1887 a secret society known as the American Protective Association (APA) organized to oppose Catholics and immigrants. The APA attained its greatest strength in the Midwest.

The views of the APA in the 1880's found an able supporter in Reverend Justin Fulton. In Rome in America (1887) and Washington in the Lap of Rome (1888), Fulton revived half-a-century-old arguments that outlined the constant peril which Popery posed to the nation. The depression of 1893 further stimulated the movement as some Americans seeking a cause for their misfortunes again found an answer in tales of Papal plots. Into this ATL, consider the idea that you might have an American version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion written to discredit Democratic efforts to repeal the Blaine Amendments, or the idea of providing school vouchers to different groups....

Blaine was from Maine.

 

[Wendell]

What people maybe wondering is what I am trying to do by bringing up the anti-Catholic sentiment? The idea is that in my opinion, the idea is that the Blaine Amendment caused a major shift in the Democratic Party, by planting the seeds for a government policy of domestic programs, while trying to open a more diverse party constituency. Consider in the ATL, the Republicans would be seen as being more libertarian and more inclusive. As such, consider the consequences carefully of a right-wing Democratic party that subscribes to many nativist and anti-immigrant polices. On the other hand, you would have a left-wing Republican Party with libertarian policies.... Imagine the changes to policies over the course of 60 years....

In some ways, this is starting to happen to a very small extent now. Nonetheless, it would be an interesting change.

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

My Bad!!

Blaine was from Maine.

Dang!! That was pretty silly of me! In 1896, the American Protection Association (APA) would be launching a national effort to "protect national institutions" citing the 1893 Depresssion. In Seattle, WA, they organized a group called "Mass Battery" to enforce their electoral mandates... Starting in 1912, consider that Al Smith (R-NY) would certainly be a target for anti-Catholic violence. Consider that in 1915, with the revival of the Ku Klux Klan, you would see a stronger anti-Catholic sentiment rise in the countrry. During this period, please consider the rise of Southern Democrats to the leadership of the party. In 1949, you could have the book American Freedom and Catholic PowerBY Paul Blanshard extoll readers to prevent the rise of Catholics to power. In such an ATL, consider that the Republicans would seem to be a good home for the Kennedys...

 

[Straha]

Why not make the dems evolve into an americanized fascist party?

 

[Wendell]

Dang!! That was pretty silly of me! In 1896, the American Protection Association (APA) would be launching a national effort to "protect national institutions" citing the 1893 Depresssion. In Seattle, WA, they organized a group called "Mass Battery" to enforce their electoral mandates... Starting in 1912, consider that Al Smith (R-NY) would certainly be a target for anti-Catholic violence. Consider that in 1915, with the revival of the Ku Klux Klan, you would see a stronger anti-Catholic sentiment rise in the countrry. During this period, please consider the rise of Southern Democrats to the leadership of the party. In 1949, you could have the book American Freedom and Catholic PowerBY Paul Blanshard extoll readers to prevent the rise of Catholics to power. In such an ATL, consider that the Republicans would seem to be a good home for the Kennedys...

Al Smith was a Democrat in OTL...

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Ah....

Al Smith was a Democrat in OTL...

That maybe true of OTL, but consider that in the ATL, there would be little incentive for Al Smith to join the Democratic Party. If anything, the nativist and anti-Catholic sentiment would have driven him from the party, but the need for government representation would have precluded Smith joining a majoe party...

 

[Wendell]

Interesting point.

That maybe true of OTL, but consider that in the ATL, there would be little incentive for Al Smith to join the Democratic Party. If anything, the nativist and anti-Catholic sentiment would have driven him from the party, but the need for government representation would have precluded Smith joining a majoe party...

Could Barry Goldwater relate to this ATL's GOP?

 

[Mr_ Bondoc]

It Depends....

Could Barry Goldwater relate to this ATL's GOP?

This depends on the outcome of the political fallout of the First and Second World Wars. If you want Barry Goldwater to be seen as someone who espouses a libertarian view point, with a need for federal support for civil rights, then he would be a welcome addition to teh ATL's GOP. But if the issue is the development of "state's rights" then he would be a strong member of the Democratic Party in the ATL. As such, consider that the Civil Rights Movement in the 1950s/1960s will renew the debate about the direction of the political parties...