Blackmailing the U.S.

If for some reason Japan during WWII manages to conquer Hawaii (I know its impossible and asb, but lets say they get extrememly lucky for the sake of argument) and blackmails the U.S. in either killing the entire population of Hawaii or negotiations for a status quo plus oil shipments? Would this be enough of a threat to get America into negotiations or would the U.S. consider this as a bluff and keep on going? Remember, Japanese goals of the war was to get oil, not conquer like the Nazis. They were also getting desperate as they began to realize they were getting overstrecthed and was prepared to do almost anything.

Again, I know the IJA can't conquer Hawaii, but want to see if the U.S. could be blackmailed.
 
No way

No way in @#$@ would the US have just stood by and let the IJA and the IJN to conquer Hawaii without retaliation.:eek:
 

MrP

Banned
Threaten to kill all the Hawaiians after a sneak attack and invasion? I think the Americans will be even angrier than IOTL.
 
You also have just made Hawaii impossible to govern as the whole population joins the resistance. After all they have nothing to lose. You are saying you are going to kill them anyways so they figure at least they will take some of you down with them. They would also be fanatically loyal to the US.
 
You also have just made Hawaii impossible to govern as the whole population joins the resistance. After all they have nothing to lose. You are saying you are going to kill them anyways so they figure at least they will take some of you down with them. They would also be fanatically loyal to the US.

Not anyway, if the U.S. starts negotiations, they let the civilian population go.
 
You also have just made Hawaii impossible to govern as the whole population joins the resistance. After all they have nothing to lose. You are saying you are going to kill them anyways so they figure at least they will take some of you down with them. They would also be fanatically loyal to the US.

Well when you really get into it you can really kill masses of civilian very fast, but if they were indeed to do something like the propose plan that give well enough time for the U.S to do something
 
Well when you really get into it you can really kill masses of civilian very fast, but if they were indeed to do something like the propose plan that give well enough time for the U.S to do something

Not if you want enough of the population intact for the US to even consider negotiation. Once they are all dead you have nothing to blackmail with.
 
Not anyway, if the U.S. starts negotiations, they let the civilian population go.

You don't understand the American mind-set. For that matter, Japan in OTL 1941 didn't understand the American mind-set, and might have made the same assumption you did. The US would not back down.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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You don't understand the American mind-set. For that matter, Japan in OTL 1941 didn't understand the American mind-set, and might have made the same assumption you did. The US would not back down.

Quite right. The Imperial government spent a great deal of effort trying to get some sort of arrangement with the U.S. (on terms similar to those outlined). The intermediaries approached all explained to the Japanese that they were on a fool's errand.

There is also the practical matter of trying to achieve this sort of genocide. The population of Hawaii did not consist of sheep herds, not by a long stretch. Faced with assured death at the occupier's hands the population would as likely have filleted every Japanese soldier in the Islands as not, followed by an American Crusade of vengence that would have made OTL's Pacific Campaign look like a Scout Jamboree.

As far as the base question - Could Imperial Japan blackmail the U.S.? No.
Can a 3rd grader with a pea shooter defeat a Infantry company?

Could the U.S. set up an unbreakable blockade around the Japanese Home Islands, resulting in slow starvation for everyone living there? Yes. One existed IOTL .

Could the U.S. burn Japan to the ground, one city at a time? Yes; As IOTL.

Would the U.S. have just left that blockade in place for years while the Japanese people slowly disappeared, after some mad attempt by the Japanese to eradicate Hawaii's entire population? Hard to say for sure, but the sub blockade and the firebombing missions were fairly low casuality evolutions that could have been maintained as long as the U.S. felt the need.

The U.S., as a matter of national policy, more or less exterminated the Native American population, just because they were in the way. Imagine what the country would do in this case.
 
Threaten to kill all the Hawaiians after a sneak attack and invasion? I think the Americans will be even angrier than IOTL.

Maybe the Japanese will leave the Hawaiians alone and just kill the whites. Undoubtedly, they are not going to be killing the local Japanese population.
 
Population of Hawaii is what, 420,000~ at the time of occupation?

Killing them all shouldn't be that difficult assuming Japan has crossed the logistical-abyss of invading Hawaii in the first place. Go after the food supply and then start mopping up. If need be (and if you want them all dead quickly it probably would be) break out the tools Japan has been using in mainland Asia to wipe out populations.

But really to imagine this 'threat' would effect the policy of any great power is false. A nation cannot very easilly give in to such blackmail (especially after a declaration of war!) and keep face. If Japan wants to take the gloves off then the Americans will simply do the same.
 
HT has written two books on this.

Days of Infamy and End of the Beginning i suggest you read them.
 
Bear in mind that the 1940s were in many ways a different world. If the Japanese government secretly approached the US government and declared their intent to kill every Hawaiian (or every white Hawaiian) unless they could get a favourable peace, there *may* be one or two people in power willing to talk. Of course, the Japanese would have to be prepared to hold their hostages in perpetuity because people who'sd do such a deal (I would) will also renege on it as soon as the hostages are free and they have a clear shot at the bad guy (I certainly would). The outcome would depend on who they get to talk to, too. Truman - maybe. King - forget it. Roosevelt, I dunno.

If they make the threat public - let's just say it would be unwise.
 
Well, there is a difference between Hawaiians and Whites (ie. Anglos). The Japanese, which had plans for governing Hawaii had they been blindingly lucky, were going to coop the Hawaiians by restoring the Monarchy, the Whites were most likely going to be rounded up and interned in camps. The occupying forces are not going to kill these resident Japanese population, it simply wasn't and wouldn't be something they did. Even if the Imperial Army occupied the islands you'll still need people about to do the small things and perform manual labor.

It would be fair to expect that many of the Anglo-Saxon community would be interned and probably justifiably executed. However, it really is interesting how much interest and what a integral part certain Japanese felt the Hawaiians had in their Co-Prosperity Sphere.
 
Most likely result is that the US treats Japan post-WWII as it did Germany, ie, the Japanese forces(1.5 million) in China are surrendered to the Chinese to be liquidated or used as convict labor.

All prominent Japanese involved in the Hawaii genocide decision are executed, including Hirohito himself.

Much greater pursuit of Japanese war criminals including anyone who enjoyed the services of the Korean 'comfort women'.
 
Alright, the entire Caucasian population:rolleyes: Happy now???
Which still leaves a significant, if smaller, anti-Japanese populace comprised of Native Hawaiins (mostly assimilated), the descendants of Japanese migrant workers (mostly assimilated, multiple accounts IOTL of rejection of Japanese propoganda attempts pre-war and no account of treason by a Japanese-American citizen in all of the war), and various other Asiatic peoples including Philipinos (invaded), Chinese (invaded), and Koreans (didn't leave because they loved the old place).

And so, while the race-sensitive part of the con-US is inflamed more than ever, history also provides the nice story of how the True Americans of Asiatic Descent (tm) played such a loyal roll in the liberation of Hawaii and in further actions against the Japanese Empire.
 
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