Black New Mexico

What if the North and the Confederate States had fought themselves to an exhausted standstill, and during this lull the black slaves had risen under a charismatic military leader to launch a more or less successful rebellion and demanded and obtained the creation of an independent negro state on the territory currently occupied by New Mexico and eastern Arizona, and then a few years later oil was discovered...?
How would the situation develop? A Gulf-type oil state? A black government in Spartacus City? Blacks employing white servants? Whites arguing about whether black men can play the blues?
 
I doubt that the Spaniards who had lived in NM for the previous 250 years would like the idea very much. Of course, they were few and far between, so if the powers in DC and Richmond had wanted to do it, they would have. Back then, the Anglos in control of most everything seemed to dislike every other ethnic group, and be willing to crap all over everyone. How the Californios got treated is a prime example, and these were not brown skinned Mexicans, but people of European descent, who were just a wee bit darker than the Anglos, and Catholic to boot.
 
How about fewer WIs in order to make the POD more plausible? The most glaring is the idea of oil in Black New Mexico. What sort of oil production is there already in those states. Then, of course, is the question of how many recently self-liberated blacks will follow someone west into the New Mexico Territory - and then how many will either survive or remain there.
 
I doubt that the Spaniards who had lived in NM for the previous 250 years would like the idea very much. Of course, they were few and far between, so if the powers in DC and Richmond had wanted to do it, they would have. Back then, the Anglos in control of most everything seemed to dislike every other ethnic group, and be willing to crap all over everyone. How the Californios got treated is a prime example, and these were not brown skinned Mexicans, but people of European descent, who were just a wee bit darker than the Anglos, and Catholic to boot.

Correct. There were even a couple of minor revolts by Hispanics in the 1800s.

How about fewer WIs in order to make the POD more plausible? The most glaring is the idea of oil in Black New Mexico. What sort of oil production is there already in those states. Then, of course, is the question of how many recently self-liberated blacks will follow someone west into the New Mexico Territory - and then how many will either survive or remain there.

Especially in the pre-railroad era of New Mexico. The railroad helped New Mexico grow.


Polish-Armenian Conspiracy said:
Oil and gas production
New Mexico is a leading crude oil and natural gas producer in the United States. The Permian Basin (part of the Mid-Continent Oil Field) and San Juan Basin lie partly in New Mexico. In 2006 New Mexico accounted for 3.4% of the crude oil, 8.5% of the dry natural gas, and 10.2% of the natural gas liquids produced in the United States.[34] In 2000 the value of oil and gas produced was $8.2 billion.[35]

What if the North and the Confederate States had fought themselves to an exhausted standstill, and during this lull the black slaves had risen under a charismatic military leader to launch a more or less successful rebellion and demanded and obtained the creation of an independent negro state on the territory currently occupied by New Mexico and eastern Arizona, and then a few years later oil was discovered...?
How would the situation develop? A Gulf-type oil state? A black government in Spartacus City? Blacks employing white servants? Whites arguing about whether black men can play the blues?
Santa Fe and Albuquerque were already established cities during the Civil War and I should know I've lived in Albuquerque since 1998.

Santa Fe was founded in 1610 and Albuquerque was founded in 1706.

As to the Blues well the Blues originated in the Deep South and had it's roots in black music so that idea is nixed.

And what about the Hispanics?

I'm sorry this POD is just not plausible.
 
What if the North and the Confederate States had fought themselves to an exhausted standstill, and during this lull the black slaves had risen under a charismatic military leader to launch a more or less successful rebellion and demanded and obtained the creation of an independent negro state on the territory currently occupied by New Mexico and eastern Arizona....

Much of that territory is Dinetah, Navajo homeland. It also has eighteen different Pueblos, plus the Jicarillah and Mescalero Apache homelands. Really you couldn't have picked a more unlikely place to succeed.

If you want to come up with a plausible largely Black state created by an uprising, IMO the best candidate for a POD is a more successful Seminole War.
 
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Plenty, actually. New Mexico is a leading crude oil and natural gas producer.


Hypa,

Correction. Three counties in New Mexico are producers of oil and natural gas, all are on the Texas border, and none are near the area you suggest would be "colonized".

Furthermore, the oil deposits of the Permian Basin weren't discovered or even exploited until the first decades of the 20th Century, some fifty years after your POD.

This idea is not plausible.


Bill
 
Much of that territory is Dinetah, Navajo homeland. It also has eighteen different Pueblos, plus the Jicarillah and Mescalero Apache homelands. Really you couldn't have picked a more unlikely place to succeed.

If you want to come up with a plausible largely Black state created by an uprising, IMO the best candidate for a POD is a more successful Seminole War.

Good point. Stupid I forgot about the Reservations.

Hypa,

Correction. Three counties in New Mexico are producers of oil and natural gas, all are on the Texas border, and none are near the area you suggest would be "colonized".

Furthermore, the oil deposits of the Permian Basin weren't discovered or even exploited until the first decades of the 20th Century, some fifty years after your POD.

This idea is not plausible.


Bill

And they are some of the least populated counties today.
 
If you want to come up with a plausible largely Black state created by an uprising, IMO the best candidate for a POD is a more successful Seminole War.

Abraham Lincoln talked about wanting to set up free blacks in Haiti or Colombia. Even in the 1960s, among Black Power militants, there was talk about the blacks setting up their own homeland somewhere in the US. In the event of a (more or less) successful black uprising in the 1860s or 1870s, where else if not New Mexico could a black Spartacus have attempted to set up a free, independent black homeland within what are now the borders of the US?
 
If you move the POD to 1611, I think you might be better off. That year the slaves of Mexico had recently elected a King Pablo from Angola and had prepared to revolt and kill all the whites. At this time blacks, both slaves and not slaves, numbered over 20,000 far more than the Spanish population.

The revolution was planned for Christmas, but the King that the slaves elected however died shortly after being elected. This put a damper on the situation so the revolution was postponed. By 1612 the revolt was attempted again, but by this time the Spanish learned of the plot and quickly hanged and put on spikes the heads of the conspirators. Military presence was also brought in.

WI King Pablo lives longer and successfully leads the revolt in 1611, Spain now has a big problem. They essentially have to reconquer the Mexico. Not all blacks in Mexico are loyal to King Pablo, Mulattoes also were historical soldiers for the Spanish. So handwaving lets say that no real victory can be achieved by either side. Pablo still owns Mexico City but has lost many followers, and Spain has conquered back many of the important gold mines but cannot sustain conflict for very long.

As more Spanish troops come to besiege Mexico City Pablo decides it is untenable to hold and he retreats along a march that would make Mao hang his head in shame.

Pablo finally finds peace for his people far to the north, I guess. Really New Mexico is horrible place for a slave revolt to end up, so that part is really unlikely.
 
Abraham Lincoln talked about wanting to set up free blacks in Haiti or Colombia. Even in the 1960s, among Black Power militants, there was talk about the blacks setting up their own homeland somewhere in the US. In the event of a (more or less) successful black uprising in the 1860s or 1870s, where else if not New Mexico could a black Spartacus have attempted to set up a free, independent black homeland within what are now the borders of the US?

I would consider that an 'free, independent black homeland' within US territory would be considered impossible and unacceptable by the US Congress. If this Black Spartacus refuses then the US Army will be sent in to crush the rebellion and I would consider that these rebels will get it even worse than the South.

It is probable to consider a black reservation or black county within a territory or state.
 
Abraham Lincoln talked about wanting to set up free blacks in Haiti or Colombia. Even in the 1960s, among Black Power militants, there was talk about the blacks setting up their own homeland somewhere in the US. In the event of a (more or less) successful black uprising in the 1860s or 1870s, where else if not New Mexico could a black Spartacus have attempted to set up a free, independent black homeland within what are now the borders of the US?

Lot's of places almost all of them having more blacks than New Mexico.


If you move the POD to 1611, I think you might be better off. That year the slaves of Mexico had recently elected a King Pablo from Angola and had prepared to revolt and kill all the whites. At this time blacks, both slaves and not slaves, numbered over 20,000 far more than the Spanish population.

The revolution was planned for Christmas, but the King that the slaves elected however died shortly after being elected. This put a damper on the situation so the revolution was postponed. By 1612 the revolt was attempted again, but by this time the Spanish learned of the plot and quickly hanged and put on spikes the heads of the conspirators. Military presence was also brought in.

WI King Pablo lives longer and successfully leads the revolt in 1611, Spain now has a big problem. They essentially have to reconquer the Mexico. Not all blacks in Mexico are loyal to King Pablo, Mulattoes also were historical soldiers for the Spanish. So handwaving lets say that no real victory can be achieved by either side. Pablo still owns Mexico City but has lost many followers, and Spain has conquered back many of the important gold mines but cannot sustain conflict for very long.

As more Spanish troops come to besiege Mexico City Pablo decides it is untenable to hold and he retreats along a march that would make Mao hang his head in shame.

Pablo finally finds peace for his people far to the north, I guess. Really New Mexico is horrible place for a slave revolt to end up, so that part is really unlikely.

Well in 1680 there was a Pueblo Revolt and the Spanish were kicked out of New Mexico, but like 10 years later they reconquered New Mexico, so I don't see Pablo's revolt being successful in the long term.

I would consider that an 'free, independent black homeland' within US territory would be considered impossible and unacceptable by the US Congress. If this Black Spartacus refuses then the US Army will be sent in to crush the rebellion and I would consider that these rebels will get it even worse than the South.

It is probable to consider a black reservation or black county within a territory or state.

I agree 100%.
 
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