Black Confederate's?

Spengler

Banned
I think saying LA was a "Black Freindly" state requires a nice asterisks explaining that it was almost entirely around New Orleans, and the pressures of general southern culture were changing that.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I think saying LA was a "Black Freindly" state requires a nice asterisks explaining that it was almost entirely around New Orleans, and the pressures of general southern culture were changing that.
Indeed - but with New Orleans the largest city in the Confederacy, it's an important data point. And my reason for citing the black-friendliness of Louisiana in general and New Orleans in particular is that it's a plausible explanation for why so many free blacks not only existed, but were willing to fight for the Confederacy. (To a quite startling degree, actually, a very large fraction of the free blacks of New Orleans and the environs were willing to fight for the CSA!)
 
Indeed - but with New Orleans the largest city in the Confederacy, it's an important data point. And my reason for citing the black-friendliness of Louisiana in general and New Orleans in particular is that it's a plausible explanation for why so many free blacks not only existed, but were willing to fight for the Confederacy. (To a quite startling degree, actually, a very large fraction of the free blacks of New Orleans and the environs were willing to fight for the CSA!)

Was this fighting for the CSA, or Louisiana? A cursory glance at Wiki shows that these troops by and large happily changed sides incentive after the state changed hands. So I'm skeptical they were as pro-CSA versus pro-Louisiana. What was good for their stage was good for them.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Was this fighting for the CSA, or Louisiana? A cursory glance at Wiki shows that these troops by and large happily changed sides incentive after the state changed hands. So I'm skeptical they were as pro-CSA versus pro-Louisiana. What was good for their stage was good for them.
That's probably what was actually going on, you're correct.
 

Spengler

Banned
Was this fighting for the CSA, or Louisiana? A cursory glance at Wiki shows that these troops by and large happily changed sides incentive after the state changed hands. So I'm skeptical they were as pro-CSA versus pro-Louisiana. What was good for their stage was good for them.
It was for Louisiana, in fact they were less then happy when the CSA did everything in its power to prevent them from fighting, so much that they joined the Union.
 
That's probably what was actually going on, you're correct.

Either that or they thought the CSA was going to win at that point so tried kissing up to make sure there will be Free Blacks after the war. After all if the CSA wins they will have to deal with the results. It is better to be on the winning side. Louisiana is far more likely to enslave Free Blacks or kick them out if the Free Blacks fight for the Union instead of the Confederacy assuming the CSA would win.
 
The thing you also have to consider is, there was proposals back in 1863 to get blacks into the CSA armies, proposals made by CSA military officers at that.

They got shitcanned for a few reasons:

1. "Blacks can't fight!" Their words, not mine.

2. It'd elevate them to the status of equals!

3. We'd have to promise them freedom, and freeing our slaves is just the most awful thing we can imagine.

4. We can't make slave owners actually give up their property, that'd be outrageous!

Even when said proposal was finally passed, in March 13, 1865, by a very thin margin (40-37, in the House, then 9-8 in the Senate), and didn't do much other then get a couple companies who were not well motivated or well trained.

Also, there was the fact that the Union offered freedom to ALL the blacks, not just those who fought for the CSA. No small wonder why that offer was not appealing to pretty much anyone.
 
The thing you also have to consider is, there was proposals back in 1863 to get blacks into the CSA armies, proposals made by CSA military officers at that.

They got shitcanned for a few reasons:

1. "Blacks can't fight!" Their words, not mine.

2. It'd elevate them to the status of equals!

3. We'd have to promise them freedom, and freeing our slaves is just the most awful thing we can imagine.

4. We can't make slave owners actually give up their property, that'd be outrageous!

Even when said proposal was finally passed, in March 13, 1865, by a very thin margin (40-37, in the House, then 9-8 in the Senate), and didn't do much other then get a couple companies who were not well motivated or well trained.

Also, there was the fact that the Union offered freedom to ALL the blacks, not just those who fought for the CSA. No small wonder why that offer was not appealing to pretty much anyone.

Particularly since the bill didn't specify freeing Blacks. Jeff Davis insisted only Free Blacks would be accepted. He must have figured out that slave soldiers wouldn't be very loyal, particularly when the other side is offering them and their families freedom.
 
So the overwhelming body of evidence seems to suggest that the vast majority of blacks didn't want to fight for the Confederacy and the Confederacy by and large didn't want them to be anything but slaves save when they were desperate.
 
Particularly since the bill didn't specify freeing Blacks. Jeff Davis insisted only Free Blacks would be accepted. He must have figured out that slave soldiers wouldn't be very loyal, particularly when the other side is offering them and their families freedom.
Don't forget the part where the slave owners HAVE to voluntarily give up their slaves, no just taking them.
 
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