Black Confederate's?

EMTSATX

Banned
I was watching some videos on YouTube that sparked an interest. It showed pictures of (aged) Confederate reunion's presumably of United Confederate Veterans. In the video's it shows a number of black men a) wearing Confederate uniforms b) being in positions of honor I.e. holding the Confederate flag C) being treated like any other solider. From the age of the men I would say the pictures are 1900-1920.

I am aware of several companies of blacks being mobilized in Richmond but they did nothing more than parade. I also know Lee advocated integrated units.

I contacted both the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughter's of the Confederacy.

Their response was this: the SCV said they had never had a valid claim from a descendant of the companies formed in Richmond. They pointed out that slaves were taken into the field but again due to records they did not have confirmed combat record s thus no membership. Labor (nice phrase there.) Did not qualify for membership.

The UFC wrote me a nice letter saying they had never had "colored" members.

Si where did these black "Veterans" come from in these pictures? I can't imagine they were let In Veterans groups for fun or because they were prominent citizen's?

Ideas?
 
There were cases of blacks not formally part of the CSA army but "serving" with one unit or another. They were usually slaves of one member or another who picked up a gun and just stayed with the regiment.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
There were scattered cases of individual slaves present in camp as servants for white soldiers basically being seen as members of the regiment and many free blacks were hired as teamsters, cooks, and whatnot. But the alleged large numbers of blacks serving willingly as soldiers in the Confederate army because they supported the Confederate cause is a complete and utter myth.
 

SRBO

Banned
Either slaves or a few of the ultra-rare blacks that owned slaves also (this did happen, apparently the first American slave owner was black)
 
I hear they were mostly slaves, and that they were elisted by their masters. The confederates proposed the use of slave soldiers in case of a massive manpower shortage, but even this idea was criticized by white confederate soldiers themselves.
I hear that confederate supporters use this "blacks as confed soldiers" case as an argument against cruelty.
 
There were black militia units in Louisiana in 1861. When the CSA was formed and these units disbanded. Blacks with the Confederate units as slaves accompanying masters, slaves or free black employed as teamsters etc did on occasion use weapons in the heat of battle. Actually enrolling blacks with the promise of freedom after the war did not occur until almost the end of the war, and was vigorously opposed by many elements political and military. It was only allowed as a desperation measure when the CSA was basically defeated and manpower for the military was essentially totally used up from the white population. Had the CSA somehow become independent after this happened it would be interesting to speculate what the fate of black soldiers would have been. Many of the states in the CSA had laws requiring free blacks to leave the state, and of course any of the soldiers who had families would be faced with having to buy their freedom, leave them behind, or return to their previous owners and hopefully work as a paid worker.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The "black people willingly supported the Confederacy" thing is a myth.
Incorrect as stated. It would be true to say that only a very few black people willingly supported the Confederacy; however, the very existance of the 1st Louisiana Native Guard (an all volunteer regiment recruited for the Confederacy in Louisiana, long the most black-friendly state in military terms) shows that some blacks were willing to support the Confederacy.
We also know it was not under duress as the regiment was disbanded by order of the CSA - that is, the blacks of Louisiana specificially were more willing to fight for the Confederacy than the Confederacy was willing to let them.

This is probably because Louisiana was, as I note, long a black-friendly state.
 

EMTSATX

Banned
I'm aware of the slavery being in the field and I known it was a total myth about their support. My question mainly centers around how did they end up in Confederate veteran groups. Why did they join and why were the seemingly accepted so well? I was just shocked to see them in Confederate uniforms and so seemingly accepted.

It reminded me of seeing blacks a few years ago dressed in Confederate uniforms and protesting in favor of the Confederate flag. How did these men end up in veterans units that must have been very racist social clubs. Like a black man being in the Klan.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I think these statements require some proof.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R3EcLw6H38kC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=militia+act+opt+out+louisiana&source=bl&ots=ck2GbHO7LJ&sig=hVCiEwtkA_d_mv0_y2_eP0U5qqw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjY6cyB0dDOAhWEJcAKHUgRAlsQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=militia act opt out louisiana&f=false

Louisiana had an opt-out on the 1792 Militia Act's specification of white males being eligible for militia service. Louisiana raised separate black militia units, which was the only place before 1862 that blacks could serve in the US military as actual soldiers (as opposed to servants/cooks etc.)
n.b. the Navy did not have such a colour bar in law; I'm talking about soldiers not sailors.

This is why I describe Louisiana as a black-friendly state.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
That article says he was one of the first not the first. Big difference. Black slave owners were never common as saying a black man was the first slave owner in the US would imply.
In the first case, it mentions that he won the first case in the Thirteen Colonies declaring that a man could be a slave; that is, he was the first person to have someone who was legally declated what amounts to a slave. In any case, the difference is in fact minor - between "the first" and "one of the first" when the case which established holding slaves was possible took place while he was holding them. That is to say, he was one of the first in the sense of being one of a group who were collectively "the first".

In the second case, SSBO was noting that blacks owned slaves and that it was rare.
a few of the ultra-rare blacks that owned slaves also (this did happen, apparently the first American slave owner was black)
So you're accusing him of implying something while he outright states the opposite in his quote.


Either way, it looks like you're trying to pick a fight by nitpicking over quite minor details while missing the point of the original poster (which was simply to point out that some blacks did own slaves, and using an example of someone he remembered hearing about at some time).

In any case. Citations provided, so hopefully you're satisfied.
 
This is probably because Louisiana was, as I note, long a black-friendly state.
As much as a few people of color may have served in the Confederate Army, Louisiana holding over three hundred thousand African-Americans in slavery does not seem "black-friendly" by any objective standard.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
As much as a few people of color may have served in the Confederate Army, Louisiana holding over three hundred thousand African-Americans in slavery does not seem "black-friendly" by any objective standard.
I more mean the forty-plus years Louisiana was the only state in the Union which allowed blacks to serve in the army (or militia). Louisiana's distinction is not in that it didn't have slaves, but in that it considered it entirely possible for a black man to become a full member of society and hence serve in the militia, own land, or own slaves.
This is notable in the United States, not just in the South - and we can conjecture that it's this which motivated so many Louisianan blacks to volunteer for a nation which on the whole did not want their service.
 
While free blacks had a wider scope in Louisiana than elsewhere in the states that became the Confederacy, and some were well off and owned slaves of their own, they were in no way full members of society. For one thing, black men in Louisiana, no matter how long free or born free, could not vote. Needless to say sexual relations between black men and white women would not end well. The free black society in Louisiana was basically in New Orleans, and very French ( as opposed to "American") oriented. Prior to the USA acquiring Louisiana free blacks whether under Spain or France has much more entree in to the general run of society and this continued after Louisiana became part of the USA along with many other traditions. Of course, over time these traditions and openness faded though were not completely gone.
 
I'm aware of the slavery being in the field and I known it was a total myth about their support. My question mainly centers around how did they end up in Confederate veteran groups. Why did they join and why were the seemingly accepted so well? I was just shocked to see them in Confederate uniforms and so seemingly accepted.

It reminded me of seeing blacks a few years ago dressed in Confederate uniforms and protesting in favor of the Confederate flag. How did these men end up in veterans units that must have been very racist social clubs. Like a black man being in the Klan.

People are often surprisingly good at compartmentalising things, and racism is no different in this respect. "Oh, sure, I don't mind *Bob*, it's the rest of them pesky negroes I can't stand..."
 
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