Black Boots, White Snow - A collborative Nazi Victory TL

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Deleted member 5719

From "Canada" - By Serge Gainsbourg. Published in "L'etoile jaune" a collection of his poems (1979, Montreal)

Saint Laurence and The Royal Mountain,
Police Victoria's Arcadia.
My new world is buried
in your old world Nomenklatura,
But you gave me back my own name
Preserved from the Calamity.
And I'm Gainsbourg again,
A wandering Jew.
 
OOC: Inspired by Presbyman's article about Christianity ITTL

Excerpts from the July 1974 Edition of The National Socialist Christian;


The latest findings from the American side of Biblical history are quick to point out the Semitic nature or “Jewishness” of the historical Jesus Christ both in the philosophical sense, stressing that Christianity is in essence an extension of the older Jewish religion and of the greater Semitic-Abrahamic traditions of the Middle East, and in the biological sense, with their fallacious conclusion that; “Jesus was born in Judea, therefore Jesus was a Jew”. The disciples of these theories are also fond of labeling traditional European depictions of Jesus Christ as a brown or blonde-haired man with light skin as “historically inaccurate”, saying that the historical appearance of Christ more resembles the present day Semitic inhabitants of the Levant rather than any European man. If one is to go with these ridiculous claims then all the great and iconic images of Christ in medieval cathedrals and in the works of Michelangelo and Durer, are all “historically inaccurate”!

But the much more advanced and comprehensive studies carried out by the Ahnenerbe, specifically the groundbreaking archaeological expeditions in Palestine in 1961-62, commissioned by Dr. Richard Walther Darre and the subsequent genealogical study conducted by Dr. Franz Altheim Jr. of the Mengele Institute in 1965, bring to light incontrovertible evidence that not only contradict but completely dismiss American claims of a biologically “Jewish Jesus”. Findings from these studies reveal a great migration of men of Aryan stock from Roman Europe to Judea, in the years before the birth of Jesus. These Aryan migrants, mostly soldiers from Italy and Roman Gaul, but also merchants and administrators settled in Judea in large numbers from about 40 to 10 BC…

Correspondingly, in the field of theology and philosophy, the influential works of Dr. Joseph Ratzinger of the University of Magdenburg do as much to dismiss the philosophical and theological aspects of the “Jewish Jesus” fallacy. In his book, True Christianity: An Aryan Faith, Dr. Ratzinger writes about his discoveries of astonishing similarities between the earliest forms of Christianity, untainted by Jewish influences, and the spiritual and mythological philosophies of traditional Aryan and Nordic folk religion from the First Century BC, citing the subtle Nordic influences of Jesus Christ’s teachings and highlighting its defiance and incompatibility with the decadent Jewish materialism of the Pharisees…

Dr. Ratzinger also details the gradual corruption of the original Christian message after the death of Christ by the Gospel writers, whom he insightfully labels as “Judeo-Bolshevik propagandists” as well as the advanced corruption of Christianity by the superstition and dogmatism of the early institutionalized Church…
 
Free French leader Charles de Gaulle dies
Montréal, Canada
November, 9 1970


Two-star General Charles de Gaulle, who had been the leader of the so-called French resistance since the French defeat in 1940, died today at 79 in Montréal, Canada, where he was residing since the dissolution of the Free French Union and the independance of Senegal. He hadn't seen the Eastern hemisphere since the tentative of takeover at Algiers in 1961.

A relatively obscure figure in French military prior to World War II, de Gaulle rose to worldwide prominence when he called unsubdued French forces to resistance on June, 18 1940, from London where he had taken refuge. At the end of the war, he managed to split the former French colonial empire in two, establishing the Free French Union, that would be dissolved in the independantist movements in the early 60s.

Prime Minister Trudeau saluted "one of the few remaining leaders of the war, and a subject of pride from the French people". He was suceeded as President of the French Government in Exile by General Jacques Chaban-Delmas. In Paris, no statement has been made by Guide Jacques Doriot.
 
OOC: If it meets with your approval, I would like to move back my character's development about ten years (meaning the "Confirmation" service would be held in 1971 rather than 1981; and he would arrive back as SS liason in Britain in 1985 rather than 1995.)
 
A 1980 Informational Brochure for the Hamburg Reichs Mercy Clinic #16 (am Dammtor Bahnhof)

"Welcome to the Reichs Mercy Clinic #16. You have chosen our services today because the appropriate authorities have classified your family member (whether a child or an elderly relative) as an incurable burden on society. In addition, it is beyond doubt that anyone in such a life situation (such as cleft palate, down's syndrome, senility or other undesirable condition) would not wish to exist.

You, and your relative, are making an important sacrifice for the Fatherland. We salute you!

After the painless mercy procedure is completed (whether a termination of pregnany or a termination of post-natal life from infant to elderly), you will be provided with a no-cost burial for your relative and a cash grant of RM 2,000. If feelings of guilt arise from your decision today, no-cost counseling will be provided for you, including spiritual help from an authorized German Christian Minister.

It is expected however, that after a suitable period of counseling, you will demonstrate the appropriate gratitude to the Fatherland for lightening your own burden as well as its burden. Prolonged feelings of guilt or depression may be used as evidence of societal unsuitability subjected to the appropriate corrective treatment, up to and including the utilization of a Reich Mercy Clinic.

Heil den Fuhrer!"


OOC: I got this idea from Harry Turtledove's "In the Presence of Mine Enemies"
 
The Lion's Disgrace: A First Hand Account of the Fall of Britain
By James R. Minley (Published 1977)

Excerpt:

I recall the evacuation. It was a horrific time for the empire; a horrific one for anybody in South London for that matter. The Stukas screeched like eagles out of hell as they dive bombed on the cities, turning whole blocks to rubble and shooting anything that bothered to get up in the air. The air smelt of smoke and the burning of so much, and a thick fog (so thick you couldn't see more than a few yards before you) seemed to permeate at that time at all hours.

Many of the homes in London had been destroyed by then. Most people shuffled into the ruins, taking cover from the bombs and the rain, and sleeping in the shambles by night, praying to God that they survived whatever may have struck everyone else in the meantime. Many of the other monuments and buildings of the empire had been destroyed beyond recognition by this time as well. However, above the smoke and suit and destruction, St Paul's Cathedral somehow managed to remain unscathed. It gave people hope; a hope that would otherwise never had been their to calm the fears and give a bit of cheer to overwhelming sadness. One could look up at the dome, one's being completing in shambles, and rebuild oneself and their spirit and go on with living....

...

Intelligence told us that the Germans were to invade sometime in fall of that year. The issue then became what to do to fight it back. At that time, the royal army was in shambles and the navy, while great, suffering. I guarded the room the night that they discussed what to do. A few Generals wished to fight to the last man, discussing seriously the possibility of operating guerrilla forces if necessary. But, the issue became inevitably what to do with the royal family and political elite; the people of Britain being secondary to the rulers of the nation, which would show in the final evacuation.

His majesty King George, as well as the Queen were of course to be evacuated (his majesty had to be convinced after thorough disagreement that this should be his course due to a feared inevitable end, and one that would sadly come true). They, followed by Prime Minister Churchill, the members of the House of Commons and the House of Lords, the military heads that could be afforded to evacuate, and then the British commoner...

...​

I was on the boat that carried his majesty, the Queen, Prime Minister Churchill, and several politicians from the island. It was a lowly craft for the occupants it was transporting, and if I recall, simply a retrofitted ocean liner. His Majesty and Churchill both looked like men going to a funeral that day. Their faces were aged far beyond their years, and looked on with grim melancholy. As I recall, not a soul uttered more than a few syllables on the craft, and those that stayed in their rooms or the mess stayed still as statues as they sat. The only notion of life existed in their eyes, with which they communicated their thoughts to each other in long, tired stares or quick glances. Most of the time, though, they tried to stare off into nothingness. The Queen was nowhere to be found, but a notable whimper could be heard from her room.

As the boat sailed from port, both Primed Minister Churchill and King George stared out from the open deck of the aft of the vessel. Both men stood near each other by the lining wall at the very edge of the aft, each grasping it with a hand to support themselves. They said nothing, but stared out at the British coast as it grew smaller. As the land disappeared behind the fog, Churchill cast his head down, and turned back to reenter the vessel, knowing that this was the last he would see of his homeland, and the last time he would live to see it free. King George remained, staring into eternity.
 
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The Serge Gainsbourg one was so awesome. I love the cultural slant this is taking. I'll post some movie reviews soon.
 
I think 1976 is implausibly early to land on the Moon. The Apollo-era equipment may have been technically able to (may), but 1976 is just two launch opportunities after the Moon landings! Assuming they use opposition missions, there are still only 4 chances to launch preliminary probes and missions! 1982-1988 is more plausible, or moving the moon landing back to about '66 or '65 (plausible, with first human flight in '56)

I also find it difficult to believe that the US would not have attempted to develop the atomic bomb. Remember, the Manhattan Project had started by 1942. I assume that Britain has been overrun in 1940, but that just gives more of an impetus to it, if anything (preliminary work had started by 1939). It is plausible that it goes slower ITTL, but not too much slower.

EDIT: I should probably clarify. Any Mars mission is naturally going to require specialized equipment (eg., Mars landers and long-duration habitats). Naturally, the US is going to want to test these first (eg., by flying a flyby of Mars or landing a MEM on the Moon). Of course, it will also take some time to develop this equipment. It might not take as long as Apollo, but it will certainly take time, and with just 4 years between first Moon/first Mars, they don't have the time. If you want to keep it on the Bicentennial, you need to move the first Moon landings forward at least several years. If you don't, then you need to move the first Mars landings back at least several years.
 
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I think 1976 is implausibly early to land on the Moon. The Apollo-era equipment may have been technically able to (may), but 1976 is just two launch opportunities after the Moon landings! Assuming they use opposition missions, there are still only 4 chances to launch preliminary probes and missions! 1982-1988 is more plausible, or moving the moon landing back to about '66 or '65 (plausible, with first human flight in '56)

The 70's and 80's are prime for a Mars landing. Similarly, the basis for such thought is not on Apollo rockets retrofitted for Mars travel, but simply using Apollo as a directional catalyst. The Shuttle put focus on a dead end and inspired no one and set us on a dead end direction. Nix the Martian probes or limit them, and focus on an atomic rocket or even a conventional one for Martian exploration, and its easily feasible. Take into account, as well, that the space programs is a few years ahead of the curve here in development, and that it is not the same because it is indeed alternate history (there is something in lieu of Apollo; there is something in lieu of NASA; there is someone in lieu of John Glenn; etc.). And I didn't even pull out the Orion Program.
 
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Deleted member 5719

OOC: If it meets with your approval, I would like to move back my character's development about ten years (meaning the "Confirmation" service would be held in 1971 rather than 1981; and he would arrive back as SS liason in Britain in 1985 rather than 1995.)

no probs, edit it back.
 
Emperor Norton I said:
The 70's and 80's are prime for a Mars landing. Similarly, the basis for such thought is not on Apollo rockets retrofitted for Mars travel, but simply using Apollo as a directional catalyst. The Shuttle put focus on a dead end and inspired no one and set us on a dead end direction. Nix the Martian probes or limit them, and focus on an atomic rocket or even a conventional one for Martian exploration, and its easily feasible. Take into account, as well, that the space programs is a few years ahead of the curve here in development, and that it is not the same because it is indeed alternate history (there is something in lieu of Apollo; there is something in lieu of NASA; there is someone in lieu of John Glenn; etc.). And I didn't even pull out the Orion Program.
Maybe, maybe not--Mars is much harder than the Moon (both conjunction-class and opposition-class missions take well in excess of a year), and the capability of a self-contained habitat to last that long hasn't been demonstrated by anyone OTL. In any event, the main problem I have here is that there just isn't long enough between the first US Moon landings and the first Mars landings to develop the necessary hardware (as I edited my previous post to reflect). Also, considering that first manned flight was 5 years earlier than OTL it would make sense for the first US Moon landing to be earlier than 1972--maybe 1965 or 1966, which might allow enough time to develop the hardware for a Mars mission. Of course, if it took until 1972 because they were going for Orion--well, that's just way too awesome :D A four-year gap would be perfectly reasonable, then.

As a more minor point, Martian probes would be necessary to map Mars and get some idea of how to land payloads there. Maybe nothing as elaborate as the Vikings (though there is something to be said for trying at least a few large probes), but I'd say at least a dozen or two probes would be launched (about as many as went to the Moon OTL).
 

Dom

Moderator
OOC: I was just wondering what people think the situation would be like in Africa in this timeline? I will try to get something up later but you all have such high quality work, i'm afraid I wouldn't be able to match up :eek:
 

Deleted member 5719

OOC: I was just wondering what people think the situation would be like in Africa in this timeline? I will try to get something up later but you all have such high quality work, i'm afraid I wouldn't be able to match up :eek:

The ideas are the important thing, it'd be great to see something on Africa... also we need to know a bit about Mussolini.

AND we need to have nuclear attacks on Kyoto and Hiroshima post 1956!

Also MadagIsrael is due an update.
 
From History of World Conflict & Warfare by Sir John Hackett (Sidgwick & Jackson, 1985)

Third Boer War (1973-1982) On July 7th, 1973, Colonel Eugène Terre'Blanche overthrew the government under Balthazar Johannes Vorster, citing his "socialist views", starting in Heidelberg, Transvaal. German forces supported The Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (English: Afrikaner Resistance Movement) or AWB. Terre'Blanche viewed the end of race laws as a surrender to communism, and launched a full scale civil war. When Balthazar Johannes Vorster addressed a meeting in Terre'Blanche's hometown of Ventersdorp in 1972, Terre'Blanche led a protest, and the Battle of Ventersdorp ensued between the AWB and the police, with a number of people killed. Despite the alliance, Terre'Blanche publicly claimed that he was not a "German puppet" in an effort to gain legitimacy for the AWB. He went as far as to claim that the swastika of the AWB were instead the sevens, 'the number of JAHWEH', 'stand to oppose the number 666, the number of the anti-Christ'. Red was to be considered to represent Jesus' blood, while black stands for bravery and courage. The inner white circle symbolized the "eternal struggle", or according to other sources "eternal life". The AWB government collapsed when the AWB instituted a Voedingskema (feeding scheme), later called the Volkshulpskema (people's help scheme), to help the very poorest Afrikaner families. The scheme was supposed to deliver a meal every day to 14,000 poor Afrikaner children in Pretoria. Unfortunately, racked by corruption and mismanagement, most of the food would end up rotting in warehouses in Johannesburg. By In February 1983, a Crisis Commission was held when heads of 52 government departments had gone on strike. This caused almost the entire Bophuthatswana public services to collapse, including the Health Service, because nursing staff were striking. 30,000 teachers went on strike. On March 11th, 1983, AWB Colonel Alwyn Wolfaardt, AWB General Nicolaas Fourie and Veldkornet (Field Cornet) Jacobus Stephanus Uys were driving a blue Mercedes at the end of a convoy of AWB vehicles, firing into a crowd of Bophuthatswana civilians. Members of the Bophuthatswana Defence Force returned fire and hit the driver of the car, Nicolaas Fourie, in the neck, another gunman, Alwyn Wolfaardt, in the arm and the remaining gunman, Jacobus Uys, in the leg. Wolfaardt got out of the car and waved a pistol but was advised by nearby journalists not to start shooting. A Bophuthatswana police officer relieved him of the weapon. Another policeman tried to fire on journalists but his rifle jammed and it was taken from him by yet another policeman. Menyatsoe approached and spoke to Wolfaardt, asking if he was a member of the AWB. Wolfaardt confirmed this, saying they came from Naboomspruit, and pleaded for his life and the lives of the other two wounded AWB members. Menyatsoe then shot the three wounded men dead at point blank range with an R4 rifle, saying "what are you doing in my country?". The shooting was captured by the watching journalists and broadcast worldwide. For many the ultimate failure of the AWB government, served to show the limitations of German military power in the Eastern Hemisphere....
 
I also find it difficult to believe that the US would not have attempted to develop the atomic bomb. Remember, the Manhattan Project had started by 1942. I assume that Britain has been overrun in 1940, but that just gives more of an impetus to it, if anything (preliminary work had started by 1939). It is plausible that it goes slower ITTL, but not too much slower.
OOC: I am picturing a US that focused primarily on rockets and space craft. Some politicians believing that sending 10,000 little rockets against Germany is better than sending 10 big rockets. Remember even the scientists weren't exactly sure what they would get.
Also I'm going to write a follow up, that shows the US was doing research into it, just more slowly and without as much government backing.
 
From Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998 edition

List of Fuhrers of the Greater German Reich

Adolf Hitler 2 August 1934-3 July 1954
Hermann Goring 3 July 1954- 7 Jan 1962
Wilhelm Frick 7 Jan 1962- 30 Sep 1965 [1]
Arthur Seyss-Inquart 30 Sep 1965- 1 Jan 1970 [1]
Heinz Hitler 1 Jan 1970- present [2]

OOC: Mostly a compilation, so we can get everything straight!

OOC [1]: Himmler is stated as being chairman of the NSDAP, so he wasn't Fuhrer. Since Seyss-Inquart is stated to have been a Fuhrer, I put him in here. I imagine that Himmler wielded actual power until his death in 1973.

OOC [2]: This guy.
 
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OOC: I am picturing a US that focused primarily on rockets and space craft. Some politicians believing that sending 10,000 little rockets against Germany is better than sending 10 big rockets. Remember even the scientists weren't exactly sure what they would get.
Also I'm going to write a follow up, that shows the US was doing research into it, just more slowly and without as much government backing.

Like I said, I can see it going slower, but not too much slower. (I mean, what kind of general can resist a bomb which could do 100s of times more damage than anything he's got?)
 
From Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998 edition

List of Fuhrers of the Greater German Reich

Adolf Hitler 2 August 1934-3 July 1954
Hermann Goring 3 July 1954- 7 Jan 1962
Wilhelm Frick 7 Jan 1962- 30 Sep 1965 [1]
Arthur Seyss-Inquart 30 Sep 1965- 1 Jan 1970 [1]
Albert Speer 1 Jan 1970- 1 Sep 1981 [1][2]
Heinz Hitler 1 Sep 1981- present [3]

OOC: Mostly a compilation, so we can get everything straight!

OOC [1]: Himmler is stated as being chairman of the NSDAP, so he wasn't Fuhrer. Since Seyss-Inquart is stated to have been a Fuhrer, I put him in here. I imagine that Himmler wielded actual power until his death in 1973.

OOC [2]: If Presbyman has his young guy talking about "Fuhrer Speer" in 1971, then Speer obviously had to be Fuhrer by then.

OOC [3]: This guy.


I don't know about Frick as Fuhrer. He was certainly competent and ruthless enough for the job, but also considered colorless and he would have been very old by 1962 ... I think he would have been 85! I think the position of Fuhrer would require a certain amount of energy and charisma.

Thanks for putting in Speer though. :)

Oh, the choice of Heinz Hitler is inspired! I had forgotten all about him but he would have been a great choice!

Indeed, he would have been such a great choice I would be willing to remove Speer as Fuhrer from my earlier entry and have Hitler as Fuhrer by 1970 ... why wait until 1981? By 1970 the Nazi Regime may have wanted to recapture the "magic" of the early days and put another Hitler in as Fuhrer.

Final question: what is "the present?" 2000?
 
I don't know about Frick as Fuhrer. He was certainly competent and ruthless enough for the job, but also considered colorless and he would have been very old by 1962 ... I think he would have been 85! I think the position of Fuhrer would require a certain amount of energy and charisma.

Thanks for putting in Speer though. :)

Oh, the choice of Heinz Hitler is inspired! I had forgotten all about him but he would have been a great choice!

Indeed, he would have been such a great choice I would be willing to remove Speer as Fuhrer from my earlier entry and have Hitler as Fuhrer by 1970 ... why wait until 1981? By 1970 the Nazi Regime may have wanted to recapture the "magic" of the early days and put another Hitler in as Fuhrer.

Final question: what is "the present?" 2000?

OOC: You're correct about Frick...that's why I put him in, because another poster stated that Himmler was basically running things, yet not actually Fuhrer. A doddering Frick and a sycophantic Seyss-Inquart are thus perfect fuhrers for a Himmler wielding power behind the throne.

I'll edit out Speer so you can put in Heinz Hitler.

Present is 2000.
 
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