Better Versailles Treaty

Is this better than OTL's Treaty of Versailles?


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Your right about no mention of the 1st August in the Tsihovich document.
Seems I made some errors in translation in the first run(s) (as I have only google translate). There is only the skirmish of Bialla mentioned (well, I couldn't identify, what google translate gives me as "Borzhimen").
This is Borszymmen (today called Borzymy).

However, what I do know, is, that the post-station incidents was reported by letter/telegram to the foreign office and the chancellor at 04:00 am at the 2nd August. Unfortunatly I can't find right now the source with the telegram and its full text, where the post-station and Prostken incidents are described with their time of happening.
But there's a telegram of Bethmann-Hollweg to the Kaiser mentioning this report (having received it at 04:00 am), that was shown by the Kaisers wing-adjutant to Tirpitz at 09:00 this morning of the 2nd August. As well as a telegram by B-H sent to the Berlin Main Telegraph office at 06:35 am, 2nd August, telling the same the ambassador in Vienna.
As well as a by Jagow to Tirpitz sent from the foreign office at 06:02 am, 2nd August telling the same (russian border violations).

Report received at chancellory and foreign office at 04:00 means
-sent from Great General Staff at 03:45, if by messenger, means
-written at the GGS at 03:30, means
-message from 1.Army inspectorate or XVII., resp. XX:Corps command read by someone at the GGS at 03:00 (give it some time for being assed and decided to be passed on)
-message from East-Prussia arrives at Berlin Main Telegraph at 02:45 (time for tube-post to GGS and deciphering)
-message sent from East-Prussia by telegraph (from where ?) at 02:40
-message prepared by whatever command in East-Prussia
...
...
-makes the first incident happen at 18:00 (Berlin time, 19:00 St.Petersburg time) 1st August very probable for me.
Why would it be probable? This comes from a Russian source, so they would know best when they attacked. And are you going to me that it would take ten hours about the news of a Russian attack to reach Berlin? How exactly were they going to command the war under these conditions?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
This is Borszymmen (today called Borzymy).
THX :) ... finally found it on my "war maps" also. Interesting to find out, that at that time it was the endpoint of a "small-scale"(1000mm) railway from Lyck (Elk today).
Why would it be probable? This comes from a Russian source, so they would know best when they attacked. ...
... given the on many other sources reported problematic communications-situation of the russians at that time as well as later between their middle as well higher commands as well as between units ... I would render it well possible, that they - the ones keeping the records - had rather assumptions than reliable data at hands.

And are you going to me that it would take ten hours about the news of a Russian attack to reach Berlin? How exactly were they going to command the war under these conditions?
Yes, I am "going to you". ;)
None is under full "war conditions" yet, esp. regarding control of communications.

It would - at this point of time - takes as long ... to reach the politicians at least, the only ones of which I have quite exact data (dispatch and receiving of messages were recorded with minutes given).

Completly comparable and in line with the times they received and reacted to the messages of french border violations in the first few days from 1st August onwards.*

At that moment (early evening 1st August 1914) there weren't any soldiers at the mentioned places, they were (most likely) already "concentrating" at their garrisons, otherwise there would have been also fights been reported, which weren't - by neither side.
After the raids there were no communication lines (telephone/telegram) from the mentioned places/villages. The information had to be brought "by hand" to the next "mayor" place (in case of Prostken : Lyck/Elk), means feet, bicycle, horse. Then someone has to be convinced, given "rural" conditions of the people after some publical palaver, to pass the message to official in charge.

All this takes already considerable time until the messages reaches military channnels. More than it took on the western front and the Vogese, where an "intensified" border guarding was already implemented and much easier to be conducted given the "level of development" of that area in general compared to the East-Prussian border regions.


*I DON'T want to discuss, if these messages were true or to which amount they were true or only someone seeing some shadows between trees. The point is there WERE reports of ... something, leading to recorded, documented reactions from Berlin, political Berlin.
 
Consequently, and given the iron political necessities in any democracy sitting down to make peace, in order to get a Versailles-order treaty which has a chance of being ratified and which meets the standards proposed by Mr. Martnen as being “fairer” (on which we may agree to disagree for now), one must end the war at one or another such stage, and assign war guilt accordingly, prior to 1918 / 1919. Only then does a different “Versailles” become possible in the sense in which Mr. Martnen poses the problem.

Mr. Martnen is my father. I'm Bobby.
 
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