Better Organized German Military in WWII

In OTL Hitler wanted complete control over the military to prevent a coup d'etat against him so he allowed his generals to do almost nothing without his permission. This resulted in many defeats for the Nazis so what if Hitler gave his generals some autonomy?
 
The problem here is that the Wehrmacht was an exceptionally well organised military machine. This stems from the harsh limitations imposed by the Treaty of Versaille. The heer was able to take the most competent officers and men and for all intents and purposes re-invent itself. Not being constrained by the dogma that so influenced the victors armies meant it was able to embrace new forms of warfare and excel at them.

The real problem here is Hitler;) By his very nature he would of course subvert them, Aryan myths don't sit well with professional militaries. I seem to remember reading a story where Hitler joined the HSF and as a result was much more focused on the sea war, leaving the land war to his generals (which of course they won). I think it was 'The Third Reich Victorious - The Little Admiral', but i'll have to check that:)
 
The real problem here is Hitler;) By his very nature he would of course subvert them, Aryan myths don't sit well with professional militaries.

I know but I want to know how successful the Nazi's would have been without his nature getting in the way so much. So let's just put this aside for a moment.
 
I know but I want to know how successful the Nazi's would have been without his nature getting in the way so much. So let's just put this aside for a moment.

The trouble is that its rather a closed circle.
Assuming Hitler wasnt such a nutjob would, logically, increase the war-fighting capability of Germany, but if he wasnt then he probably wouldnt have started WW2 in the first place...!!

So the difficulty is finding reasons why hes still the same old nutbar but doesnt interfere so much. Which is why most of the arguments that make sense have somthing hapenning to him which incapacitates him during the war (which sort of sidesteps the contradictions)
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I know but I want to know how successful the Nazi's would have been without his nature getting in the way so much. So let's just put this aside for a moment.

If Hitler listened to his senior commanders he wouldn't have reoccuppied the Rhineland, absorbed Austria, grabed the Sudetenland, invaded Poland or attacked Norway. Hitler did all of these because he was a gambler (although surprisingly I don't recall ever hearing about him playing cards) and an astute politician, in addition to being a homocidial maniac.

In short, there would never have been a WW II as we know it if Hitler listened to his professional staff.
 
As Astrodragon and CalBear have said, a sane Hitler won't start WW2 letting his generals off the leash, though I disagree with those saying that Hitler was uniquely interfering and bad. look at Stalin and Churchill, all three made some horrific blunders but thanks to the willingness to gamble and self confidence they also won some major victories, its just that Germany was outmatched.
 
Talk about gambling!

I agree that the early bloodless victories and the wins in Poland and the west would not have been won minus Hitler's rather mad gambles. The professional military would not have risked war with France and England over Poland even. Part of that was the low level of ammunition reserves. As of October 7 1939, the Germans had enough bombs for 14 more days of fighting. Other ammunition wasn't much better--enough for less than a month more of fighting. I haven't seen exact figures, but I'm guessing the spare parts situation wasn't much better, and a very high percentage of the trucks the Germans used in Poland were temporarily unusable by the end of the conflict.

There were good reasons the Germans waited seven and a half months after the Poland campaign before they attacked in the west, and gave logistics like ammo priority during that time. The severe winter weather was part of the delay, and the Germans did a lot of retraining to take care of deficiencies they discovered in Poland, but a lot of it was building up the ammo stockpiles they should have had before they started the war.
 
Hitlers gambles and successes show exactly what how much effect a better organised military would have made, none. If Hitler had provided said military with better allies, better industrial support, better logistical support then yes they could have done considerably better than they did.
 
Top