Better Czech-Polish relations

So, I was reading this thread in chat, and I noticed all the comments about how good the Czech arms industry was, in particular of how the Germans continued to use Czech-designed tanks throughout WWII, and a thought struck me...

What if Czechoslovakia and Poland had been closer allies during the interwar period, and had a good enough relationship that Poland could purchase some of those Czech tanks (and maybe some other Czech designs) to modernize its armed forces, and that the two countries could have signed a mutual defense pact against Germany. The Polish-Czech alliance seems like it could have done much better against the Germans than either did historically, especially if France or Britain were helping it.

Any thoughts?
 
Poland should have fought to preserve Czech status quo in 1938. A strong Germany was not in her best interest. The Czech and Polish armies together would have been a handful for Germany
 
The first thing to do is to find peaceful and satisfying enough for everyone solution of Tesin/Cieszyn problem.
In 1918 Edward Benes negotiates with Stephen Pichon (French Minister of Foreign Affairs) French support for Czechoslovakia in her historic borders. Czechs considered it French support for their clains to Tesin Silesia. IIRC Pichon didn't know about Polish claims to the same territory. Let's say IOTL someone (like Dmowski) informed Pichon about it and France supports Czechoslovakia, but on condition that question of Tesin is resolved peacefully and in cooperation with Poles.
Under such circumstances Czechoslovakian politicians decide to play more carefully. Also Warsaw has a brainwave and decides to hold the elections to Polish Parliament in Tesin Silesia until the conflict is resolved, one way or the other. France sends a mediator to help both sides. Under French supervision there is honest enough plebiscite in Tesin area. The Tesin Silesia is divided according to its results, with Poland keeping bigger part of the territory than IOTL. Both sides guarantee equal treatment for Polish or Czech minorities, but quietly support population swap. As a gesture of good will Poland guarantees free and unrestricted transit for Czechoslovakia along the Bohumin-Kosice Railway (Bohumin itself goes to Czechoslovakia).
Both sides are not sompletely safisfied with that solution but they decide they can live with it.
Czechoslovakia doesn't close its borders to supplies for Poland during Polish-Soviet war in 1920, which helps to improve Polish-Czechoslovakian relations, as does Czechoslovakian support for Poland during Polish-German customs war in 1925. Both goverments encourage better economic relations offering tax exemptions, among other things. Czechoslovakian goods also get some privileges in Gdynia
Year 1938. Germany, France and Britain press Czechoslovakia to give up Sudetenland to Germany. Unexpectedly Czechoslovakia gets strong support from Warsaw. Somebody there bothered to read Mein Kampf and understood that the way to Lebensraum for Germany in the east leads across Poland. Also Polish spy, major Jerzy Sosnowski, was not arrested in 1934 (as IOTL) but managed to operate successfuly until 1939 and convinced some of his superiors that Hitler was not a simple populist, but a dangerous madman. Thanks to Sosnowski Poland knows German military strength and its weaknesses. In daring move Polish government signs a mutual defence pact with Czechoslovakia. Both countries use all their diplomatic abilities to convince the world that Sudetenland should remain part of Czechoslovakia. In return Prague offers autonomy (promised also to Slovakia) and economic help for the region. But if necessary Czechoslovakians are ready to defend their territory and Poland is willing to back them.
Now Hitler has a dilemma. German Army is still not fully ready to deal with both Czechoslovakia and Poland at the same time. German people are also not so willing to start another war. But can he give up?
 
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Cieszyn/Tesin was a focal point for Polish-Czechoslovak enimity, but it was far from the only obstacle to good Polish-Czechoslovak relations. A key problem was that Poland considered the USSR to be a mortal threat, while Czechoslovakia viewed it as an ally. It would take a lot to give Poland the courage to stand up to Germany with the Soviets lurking in the east, a PoD which averts any sort of Polish-Soviet war may be required. And if a Polish-Russian (Wether Russia is white or red doesn’t matter) conflict seems possible, Czechoslovakia will view an alliance with Poland as a liability, especially if it hopes for an alliance with Russia. There was also Czechoslovakia’s unwillingness to resist Germany without France, but I think this could have been butterflied away more easily.
 
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MSZ

Banned
The main difficulties of Polish – Czechoslovak relations involved three things:
1) The Tsesin question, which Seraphim74 has presented
2) Southern Slovakia and Hungarian claims to it, with Poland being a general supporter of Hungary
3) Benes and his pro-Soviet attitude, which alienated him from other central European countries, preventing an alliance

An early resolution of the Tsesin question would take care of 1). 2) is more difficult, as good relations between Poland and Hungary are hard to butterfly away, but they aren’t also something to prevent an alliance – Hungary had claims on Romania too, and Poland still had an alliance with Bucharest. 3) would require either butterflying away Benes, having him change his language regarding the USSR or the Poles simply looking over it.


But if necessary Czechoslovakians are ready to defend their territory and Poland is willing to back them.

And this is problem number 4. OTL the Czechs simply weren’t willing to fight. Benes made his decisions depending on the stance of Paris and pretty much ignored what Warsaw had to offer.
 
The main difficulties of Polish – Czechoslovak relations involved three things:
1) The Tsesin question, which Seraphim74 has presented
2) Southern Slovakia and Hungarian claims to it, with Poland being a general supporter of Hungary
3) Benes and his pro-Soviet attitude, which alienated him from other central European countries, preventing an alliance

An early resolution of the Tsesin question would take care of 1). 2) is more difficult, as good relations between Poland and Hungary are hard to butterfly away, but they aren’t also something to prevent an alliance – Hungary had claims on Romania too, and Poland still had an alliance with Bucharest. 3) would require either butterflying away Benes, having him change his language regarding the USSR or the Poles simply looking over it.




And this is problem number 4. OTL the Czechs simply weren’t willing to fight. Benes made his decisions depending on the stance of Paris and pretty much ignored what Warsaw had to offer.
If 1 will be taken care of, 2 will be more or less too. If Poland have alliance with Czechoslovakia, it doesn't need to push for common Polish-hungarian border. Also there were between 300 - 500 000 Slovaks in Hungary at the time. As to Hungarians in Slovakia and Subcarpathia numbered something around 600 000. Czechoslovak census was pretty smart. It allowed Jews as nationality (as most of them were German or Hungarian speaking).
3.To butterfly Benes, lets have Stefanik live. There are some stories, that Benes defrauded money for Czechoslovak resistance and Stefanik told him that after war, at home, this will be look upon. Or just have somebody really look at that after Stefanik death. ;) This may also butterfly Czechoslovak-Soviet alliance. Remember, Czechoslovak legions were fighting communist at Siberia - lets them keep all the Tsar gold their captured :D and Soviet will be pissed forever. ;)
As to # 4. Czechs were willing to fight even without France. But politicians were not. Especially Benes. But army was built as strongly apolitical so didn't get involved in political solutions of the Munich crisis.

As to arms supplies. In 20-ties and 30-ties Poland was buying some arms and trucks in Czechoslovakia.
 

MSZ

Banned
If 1 will be taken care of, 2 will be more or less too. If Poland have alliance with Czechoslovakia, it doesn't need to push for common Polish-hungarian border. Also there were between 300 - 500 000 Slovaks in Hungary at the time. As to Hungarians in Slovakia and Subcarpathia numbered something around 600 000. Czechoslovak census was pretty smart. It allowed Jews as nationality (as most of them were German or Hungarian speaking).
3.To butterfly Benes, lets have Stefanik live. There are some stories, that Benes defrauded money for Czechoslovak resistance and Stefanik told him that after war, at home, this will be look upon. Or just have somebody really look at that after Stefanik death. ;) This may also butterfly Czechoslovak-Soviet alliance. Remember, Czechoslovak legions were fighting communist at Siberia - lets them keep all the Tsar gold their captured :D and Soviet will be pissed forever. ;)
As to # 4. Czechs were willing to fight even without France. But politicians were not. Especially Benes. But army was built as strongly apolitical so didn't get involved in political solutions of the Munich crisis.

As to arms supplies. In 20-ties and 30-ties Poland was buying some arms and trucks in Czechoslovakia.

Yes, Stefanik surviving would significantly strengthen the Slovak cause. Best case scenario would obviously be Slovakia becoming independent, thus discrediting the entire “czechoslovak” group. Or if he at least managed to make Czechoslovakia into a federation, the Sudeten Germans and Tsesin Poles could have gotten autonomy/federal subject status, which would also be a way to resolve the tensions. It is just important to remember that he is not a Mary Sue, and every scenario with him living making Slovakia or Czechoslovakia a paradise, where all its OTL ills are gone ;).
 
Yes, Stefanik surviving would significantly strengthen the Slovak cause. Best case scenario would obviously be Slovakia becoming independent, thus discrediting the entire “czechoslovak” group. Or if he at least managed to make Czechoslovakia into a federation, the Sudeten Germans and Tsesin Poles could have gotten autonomy/federal subject status, which would also be a way to resolve the tensions. It is just important to remember that he is not a Mary Sue, and every scenario with him living making Slovakia or Czechoslovakia a paradise, where all its OTL ills are gone ;).
I don't think Slovakia should go independent in 1918. Czechoslovakia was needed by Slovaks too. But federalization right away could be better. On the other side, it didn't work OTL. Twice Slovaks get more freedom and twice shortly after independence was proclaimed.
Maybe confederation based on Swizz model could work for Czechoslovakia much better. ;) Just curious what would be Czechoslovakia development in case Stefanik lived.

Just was thinking about Benes. One way how to get rid of him could be election year 1935. He got support for presidency from Hlinka's Slovak People Party. Which is kind of funny what turns history can show us.
 
I think Czech Silesia including Zaolzie should be made a Condominium between Poland and CzechoSlovakia that will solve the problem about Zaolzie.
 
I don't think Slovakia should go independent in 1918. Czechoslovakia was needed by Slovaks too. But federalization right away could be better. On the other side, it didn't work OTL. Twice Slovaks get more freedom and twice shortly after independence was proclaimed.
Maybe confederation based on Swizz model could work for Czechoslovakia much better. ;) Just curious what would be Czechoslovakia development in case Stefanik lived.

Actually, that was more like autonomy. And it was belated in both cases. The first republic was unfortunately never truely federalized or confederalized. Actually, given the strong pro-centrist views of most of the interwar cabinets, I believe pulling off a confederation would be even harder than a proper federation. :( Ironically, greater decentralization was one of the biggest bogeymen of the interwar cabinets, even if it actually could have helped lower the tension in some more troubled regions of the country. Granted, federalization was actually promised in the WWI documents that tackled the founding and status of Czechoslovakia. It just never came to fruition, for several reasons (all rather idiotic ones, TBH).

Štefánik surviving would be an interesting scenario, but I think it is hard to predict on how his political career would unfold. Štefánik was a liberal democrat and anti-communist and he and Beneš became alienated by the end of WWI. There would be lots of friction between the two in the 1920s and if Beneš took his pro-Soviet stance as in the OTL 1930s, it would only increase. Throw in Hlinka's more radical and more loudmouthed pro-autonomists into the fray and the debates could get genuinely vitriolic.

Slovakia becoming independent after WWI without Czech help verges on the ASB. Hungary would unfortunately retake it fairly quickly (whether Horthy's regime or Kún's Reds, etc.). The Poles would fearlessly try to annex some of the northern borderlands that they claimed during the early 20th century (a village here or there in northern Orava and Spiš). Most Slovak infrastructure (especially social, educational and bureaucratic) after the war was in a shoddy state and only recovered thanks to Czech help in the 1920s. Furthermore, Czechs without Slovaks (and the Czechoslovakist ideology) would find it harder to justify their independence and would be constantly under threat of an earlier anschluss by the Germans or Austrians (a non-Nazi one, but an anschluss nonetheless).

Avoid the war in Silesia over Teschen. That poisoned Polish- Czech relations during the inter-war era.

Yep. Definitely the biggest thorn in the eye regarding their relations.
 
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Originally posted by Zaius
Why would it be better then a clear-cut, simple division?

Theoretically it might be better: local government with fair rappresentation of all inhabitants under Polish-Czechoslovak supervision; taxes divided in 3 parts - 1 part goes to local government, 1 to Poland, 1 to Czechoslovakia; free trade zone for both countries...
Problem is I do not see it happening. Both Poland and Czechoslovakia would have been quarreling about division of taxes, majority of Polish or Czech members in the local government, education, which language should be first on official signs etc. Also both countries were regaining their independence after a very long time, some vague or shared sovereignty over the region both sides wanted to take would have been hard to swallow, as if their country was not complete. IMHO it is better to finish a potential (and IOTL very real) conflict quickly.
 
Another thing to consider if the Teschen Silesia is resolved in the early postwar period, is that not only is a Poland-Czechoslovakia alliance possible, but that the entire Central European alliance system could shift. Poland had an alliance with Romania. Romania is also a member of the Little Entente of which includes Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. In the mid-1920s, Romania attempted to include Poland into the Little Entente, but couldn't because of the Polish-Czechoslovakian dispute.

ITTL, nothing is preventing an alliance that includes Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Yugoslavia from allying. This gives France a strong alliance system east of Germany. It may mean better French handling of Locarno in order to keep its allies in the east onboard. In addition, Greece was at one point invited to join. What if it does since the alliance also includes Poland along with French guarantees? This lines up most of Central Europe together except for Hungary and Bulgaria.

This completely alters the political situation in Central Europe. Hitler - and the German General Staff - knows that they won't have the leisure of fighting any small war of their choice. Any attack on Czechoslovakia means a great war. Possibly even Ancshluss with Austria might mean war. Hitler may be less willing to gamble.

Lots of interesting possibilities.
 
An unlikely way of improving relations between Czechoslovakia and Poland might be to cause Czechoslovakia to elect Karel Kramář in 1919 (sadly I cannot think of a way of achieving this). The effect might be to remove Beneš to a footnote. Given Kramář's views on Bolshevism, we can imagine that instead of Czechoslovakia putting off the planned plebiscite and seizing Zaolzie/Teschen whilst Poland was fighting the Polish-Soviet War in 1920, Kramář might have sent Czechoslovakian forces to help defend Warsaw.
 
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