Best Use of A Golden BB For Each WWII Navy?

[politicalnomad]

If each major WWII Navy (USA, Italy, Japan, Germany, UK) was to have been given 1 golden BB (a bomb/shell/torpedo right into a magazine causing a fatal explosion) on top of already lucky shots where do you think each would elect to use it. Here are my guesses:

Japan: A bomb right into a magazine on USS Yorktown at the Battle of the Coral Sea?

UK: A shell from HMS Hood right into the main magazine of Bismark?

USA: Finish off Shōkaku at Coral Sea?

Italy: A fatal hit on HMS Indomitable during Operation Pedestal?

Germany: A lucky torpedo on HMS Ark Royal during the Hunt for the Bismark?

 

[Kome]

I think trying to save Bismarck might be a lost cause (it was practically a suicide run).

Don't think Germany would mind if Churchill and Roosevelt suffered an unfortunately improbable accident on one of their shipboard meetings though.

Ruining Operation Pedestal is pretty clever, if they could find a way to capitalize on the advantage against Malta.

 

[JLBB]

If each major WWII Navy (USA, Italy, Japan, Germany, UK) was to have been given 1 golden BB (a bomb/shell/torpedo right into a magazine causing a fatal explosion) on top of already lucky shots where do you think each would elect to use it. Here are my guesses:

Japan: A bomb right into a magazine on USS Yorktown at the Battle of the Coral Sea?

UK: A shell from HMS Hood right into the main magazine of Bismark?

USA: Finish off Shōkaku at Coral Sea?

Italy: A fatal hit on HMS Indomitable during Operation Pedestal?

Germany: A lucky torpedo on HMS Ark Royal during the Hunt for the Bismark?

Both Ark Royal and Renown passed right in front of U-556 during the 26th. They weren't zigzaging and got lucky that the sub was out of torpedos.

That said, I think there was an instant were Churchil was on a ship that got topedoed in 1939 or early 1940, but the things failed. I think that would be better for Nazi Germany.

 

[Shadow Master]

No one hit for Germany is going to do much, but that being said, I would go for a huge propaganda campaign by a fatal hit on HMS POW, just minutes after HMS HOOD goes boom! Followed immediately by the Bismark turning back for Germany to fix her battle damage. Seems to me the best that a single hit could do for the Germans morale, and to spur the RN & RAF to hit sooner, harder, and more often.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

UK

I have to cheat and say two golden 15" shells on "The Twins" when they fought Renown in April 1940. To make it more feasible have the Repluse sent out with Renown to cover the minelaying operation.

Sinking The Twins in April 1940 makes life much easier for the RN for the next 2 years.

It also saved the aircraft carrier Glorious and 2 destroyers from being sunk in June 1940. Glorious could have made a big difference in the Mediterranean. E.g. by joining Illustrious on the Taranto raid and therefore attacking with twice as many aircraft and therefore damagine all 6 Italian battleships instead of 3 or putting the ships that were damaged IOTL out of action for longer.

Germany

There was a U-boat in a perfect attacking posisiton when Ark Royal launched either the strike that attacked Sheffield in error or wrecked Bismarck's steering. However, she had no topredoes left. Even more ironically they were fitted out at the same shipyard and their crews made a pact to protect each other.

If Bismarck makes it to France, then she is probaby repaired in time to take part in the Channel Dash and then on to Norway to join Tirpitz. A channel dash consisting of 4 big ships is not more likely to fail than one of 3 ships.

Yes the RAF would throw everything it had at Bismarck, but it was doing the same to The Twins and Prinz Eugen IOTL.

Italy

The two Italian cruisers scored lucky hits on HMAS Sydney in July 1940 and then they pursued and sank the destroyers with her too.

Japan

Agree, but it must be early in the battle and Yorktown must to go down with her entire air group. That is so that Shokaku is not damaged and the losses of aircrew are reduced so that both carriers are able to take part in the Battle of Midway.

USA

Japan in reverse. That is the USN knocks out either of the big Japanese carriers early in the battle so that it can sink the other Japanese carrier without damage to either of their carriers.

Then when they go into Midway it is 4 US carriers operating as one group against 4 IJN carriers.

 

[Driftless]

UK

I have to cheat and say two golden 15" shells on "The Twins" when they fought Renown in April 1940. To make it more feasible have the Repluse sent out with Renown to cover the minelaying operation.

Sinking The Twins in April 1940 makes life much easier for the RN for the next 2 years.

It also saved the aircraft carrier Glorious and 2 destroyers from being sunk in June 1940. Glorious could have made a big difference in the Mediterranean. E.g. by joining Illustrious on the Taranto raid and therefore attacking with twice as many aircraft and therefore damagine all 6 Italian battleships instead of 3 or putting the ships that were damaged IOTL out of action for longer.

I wonder if even badly damaging one of the twins (during the battle for Norway) might take both out of the fight for weeks to months? There were several points in the Norway battle where things could have un-raveled quickly for the Germans. Early damage to the twins hits two points at one stroke.

 

[thaddeus]

for Italy a torpedo to HMS Illustrious stopping raid on Taranto? (and allowing them to move their fleet?)

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Any suggestions for a "Golden Dud" for a hit that had important consequences IOTL that ITTL was a dud.

For the British I would say at least one of the torpedoes that hit Courageous was a dud so that she was out of action for 6 months instead of sinking. (I started a TL called The Consequences of a Dud Torpedo for that.)

For the Americans, Saratoga isn't knocked out early in 1942 so she takes part in the Coral Sea. Then there is a good chance that all 3 US carriers survive and all 3 Japanese carriers are sunk.

Then if Midway still happens it is 5 US aircraft carriers against 4 Japanese ships all other things being equal but I doubt they would be.

 

[politicalnomad]

Any suggestions for a "Golden Dud" for a hit that had important consequences IOTL that ITTL was a dud.

For the British I would say at least one of the torpedoes that hit Courageous was a dud so that she was out of action for 6 months instead of sinking. (I started a TL called The Consequences of a Dud Torpedo for that.)

For the Americans, Saratoga isn't knocked out early in 1942 so she takes part in the Coral Sea. Then there is a good chance that all 3 US carriers survive and all 3 Japanese carriers are sunk.

Then if Midway still happens it is 5 US aircraft carriers against 4 Japanese ships all other things being equal but I doubt they would be.

The torpedo hits on Prince of Wales and Bismark come to mind, though I'm not sure if POW could have made a run for it anyways. In Bismark's case, with steering she can probably make France.

 

[CalBear]

Japan: USS Enterprise at Midway June 4 1942. Has to to Kill Ray Spruance.

Nazi Germany: USS Augusta, August 9, 1941. Kill both Churchill and FDR.

The WAllies really doesn't matter all that much, not in any sort of war changing way. However...

Great Britain: Tirpitz, March 9, 1942. The British spent enormous energy in planning and more or less continuously attacking/defending against her for four years

U.S.: Shokaku (or Zuikaku), October 26, 1942, Battle of Santa Cruz. Alternate: Yamato, December 25, 1943 (damage to IJN morale) or October 23, 1944, Battle of Sibuyan Sea (loss in the same engagement as Mushai, eliminate Battle of Samar).

 

[Cryhavoc101]

If each major WWII Navy (USA, Italy, Japan, Germany, UK) was to have been given 1 golden BB (a bomb/shell/torpedo right into a magazine causing a fatal explosion) on top of already lucky shots where do you think each would elect to use it. Here are my guesses:

Japan: A bomb right into a magazine on USS Yorktown at the Battle of the Coral Sea?

UK: A shell from HMS Hood right into the main magazine of Bismark?

USA: Finish off Shōkaku at Coral Sea?

Italy: A fatal hit on HMS Indomitable during Operation Pedestal?

Germany: A lucky torpedo on HMS Ark Royal during the Hunt for the Bismark?

Japan: Agreed Yorktown Sunk at Coral Sea

UK: I'm going to say 1 of the RAF Bomber Command Attacks - destroys or Mission kills Tirptz in 1941 beyond reasonable repair. This frees up multiple Home fleet assets for other uses.

Italy: Difficult one - so many opportunities missed - I'm guessing that it would have to be one of the attacks on the Armoured carriers. Although given the damage they seem to have taken 'and not sunk' it would have to be a diamond studded BB made from very precious and rare materials carried to its location by a swarm of angels.

One of the Armoured carriers was torpedoed and I cannot recall which one?

Germany: Oh my days - they've had a few already what with Courageous, Ark Royal and Hood. Wasn't Nelson 'Torpedoed' early in the war but the weapons missed or did not function or some such

Ahhha

"On 30 October (1939) she was unsuccessfully attacked by U-56 under the command of captain Wilhelm Zahn near the Orkney Islands being hit by three torpedoes, none of which exploded"

I have to add that their is no British record of the attack but lets call it that.

An early war loss of HMS Nelson.

EDit : Forgot USA

Ahhhhhhh Sinking of Shōkaku at Coral Sea on the morning of May 8th 1942 - while in OTL her strike was already airborne and doing the same to USS Lexington perhaps have Yorktowns aircraft bomb and torpedo the Shōkaku an hour or so earlier just as she is launching her aircraft (in OTl Lex's TBDs missed her with 11 Torps)

This greatly reduces the Japanese counter attack and both US Carriers Survive

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Hmmm... Building a Battleship out of gold would be a monstrous waste of resources, and wouldn't even work as a warship.

So a Golden BB would be quite useless.

 

[wietze]

i recall watching a documentary on air command, seems that during the blitz churchill was visiting a underground command bunker, and that bombs were landing right on top of them. since they were very deep down , they got off unscathed. the bombs seem to have missed the only entry only slight.
so this would be another opportunity for the germans for a 'golden' bomb.
it hits the entrace tunnel, which collapses leaving churchill and the other people stranded deep down below. and since the entrance was actually classified (and camouflaged like a house), they will only start looking & digging after it is too late.

 

[Driftless]

Japan - The PT boat carrying Gen McArthur gets caught on open water and sunk by a Japanese Destroyer, or an aircraft. Under the circumstances, McArthur might be MIA and presumed killed for quite some time.

 

[Raunchel]

Japan - The PT boat carrying Gen McArthur gets caught on open water and sunk by a Japanese Destroyer, or an aircraft. Under the circumstances, McArthur might be MIA and presumed killed for quite some time.

Wouldn't that be a lucky hit for the US?

 

[CalBear]

Japan - The PT boat carrying Gen McArthur gets caught on open water and sunk by a Japanese Destroyer, or an aircraft. Under the circumstances, McArthur might be MIA and presumed killed for quite some time.

I thought the idea was something that would HELP the country in question.

 

[Driftless]

Wouldn't that be a lucky hit for the US?

Depends on who you talk to

Having him be MIA even if for a few days, at that point in time, wouild have been a bad thing; both chain-of-command, and also for home front consumption. The military command structure would adapt quickly, if Mac were delayed, but spinning the yarn about his disappearance for the homefront might get "creative". There wouldn't be the dramatic and inspiring "I came through and I shall return". It would be more difficult to put his departure in a positive light, I think.

*edit* If MacArthur were kiled while leaving the soldiers on Bataan & Corregidor, I think that damages his legend. Human nature would be to blame him for all things that went wrong, including ones he didn't create. Wainwright probably gets a more positive place in popular American history. The General who stayed...

 

[wietze]

one to benefit the us:
the USAAF hits lesley mcnair several years earlier

 

[Saphroneth]

Is it possible to have a training accident which ultimately results in things going better for the country that had the accident?

 

[wietze]

absolutely, lesley mcnair was in command of army ground forces, and his way of training recruits got a lot of criticism, after that he fucked up the us armoured capability. so he accidentially stands in the way of a recruit charging with a bayonet.....