Best possible Axis Italy

Hkelukka

Banned
I have a theoretical question.

Assuming that all major events in the world occur as would OTL before major POD instigated changes occur. So, storms remain same date, volcanos same date, events go around generally the same unless directly intervened with.

In 1922 when Mussolini comes to power, what if instead of being somewhat of a well, idiot, when it comes to any matters of the state. He would, instead be a massively capable state man in line with German or Japanese planners. Still making mistakes ofcourse but pushing it to the highest possible realistic Italian Mussolini.

What if his general political opinions dont change, so he sitll forms facism, it still comes to power in germany and WW2 still goes ahead as normal.

What if all these occur, but with a radically smarter, more focused and all around better mussolini in charge of Italy from the very beginning?

Can a absolutely best of the best performance by Mussolini significantly affect the war and bring victory to the axis?

Keep in mind 1922, best possible mussolini that is within non-ASB territory?

Any thoughts?
 
The best possible "Axis" Italy would be one that doesn't want to invade the Balkans, and thus is an Italy that would simply be a German puppet state. Perhaps Mussolini dies before WWII and Hitler places someone else in charge. Though seeing how little actual support fascists had in Italy this is erring toward ASB.
 
The highest possible realistic Mussolini is still dealing with a country with none of the things it needs to be what he wants it to be, and little he can do about that in the short run.

Italy doesn't have much in the way of resources or industry. The (post-unification) Italian military tradition is feeble for a variety of complicated reasons that fascism is really ill suited as an ideology to coping with.

The smartass in me wants to say that being in line with the German planners isn't as much of an improvement as you think it would be, but I'll humor the idea that what you mean is a smart Mussolini and not a Udet ( http://www.historynet.com/ernst-udet-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-german-world-war-i-ace.htm ).
 

Hkelukka

Banned
Yes, yes he would be, even at its absolute best its questionable if Italy assited the axis war effort even as much as Romania did, or Finland.

But improve it with a smart leader at its helm as much as is possible while still creating the same type of ww2 and see what happens.

I'd be interested in what people can imagine happening, not so much in if its likely or not, since i know it is as borderline ASB as i could take without going ASB.
 
Not very much. Fascism is just not suited to making the kind of reforms that would see any significant difference.

Maybe Italy is remembered as fighting hard but being too ill supplied for their divisions to generally be worth much.
 
The best possible Fascist Italy, with a wiser Duce who recognizes Hitler for what he was, and sees the very high probability that Nazi Germany would eventually lose the war, and plans accordingly. Thus, like Franco, he sets up his dictatorship, takes the aid that Germany is willing to give, and then, when the war starts in 1939 finds creative excuses for not getting involved. Like Franco, he sits on the sidelines, maybe allowing German forces a few bases, but little else, and when Patton and the others show up cooperates with the Allies.

Net result: the Mussolini regime survives the war, and like Spain eventually democratizes when Il Duce passes on.
 

Hkelukka

Banned
And, if that happens there is an another interesting option.

It might be seen as the war of the excess of socialism, while national socialism might be still seen as accetable.

In a way there could be a sort of facist faction throughout the cold war. Assuming it is countries like say yugoslavia, greece, spain, portugal in one loose alliance. Might be an interesting TL.
 
Well if we want a more capable Italy in WWII and the POD is a more smart Benny there are a few things he can do:

- accept immediately the France-UK proposal about Ethiopia, so he gain what he wants but with a lot less loss and the sanction will be probably avoided.
- limit the resources given to Franco there were a real drain for the italian armed forces and Italy in general or at least asked something more for them, as a naval base.
- Avoid the army reform, even if was done for political reason severely weakened the effective forces of the division
(all that can give some more resources to Benny to equip the armed forces and go for some defensive work postponed for lack of money...like the fortification of the Taranto base)
- Admit that the Italian army can support only a single operational front and decide what is better to purse (North Africa or Balkan) and pur all resources here and not squander all resources in various place.
- warning the merchant fleet of return in Italy prior of the declaration of war.
 
I agree with Claudius realistically the best thing for both Italy and Germany would be for Italy to remain a biased neutral.
 
An earlier POD might have colder relations between Germany and Italy.

Italy still starts off allying with Germany and an earlier Italian offensive in France goes more successfully due to earlier preparations. Italy only helps itself to occupying a few key ports in France.

Mussolini sends a secret telegram to London asking for a secret armistice and alliance against Germany in exchange for aid.

The British accept, and Mussolini delays the British attempts to force an official declaration. The British leak the information to the Germans and WW2 opens up on the Italian front during Operation Barbarossa.

The Italians fight a defensive war and survive until the French Front opens up. Because of the Italian role in the war, Mussolini keeps his position (and his life) and gets a few modest gains by giving up most of the Balkans. Of course, the Italians get pissed once they find out about the British trickery.
 
A neutral Italy might end up being (fractionally) better for the Germans since they won't have to split their forces covering Mussolini's African blunder, and can instead focus those units on taking the Balkans and later slowing down the Soviets.
 
A sensible Mussolini who reconises the weakness of Italian military would benefit his country and Germany. If they stay in Albania instead of attacking Greece then Hitler need not have invaded the balkans and could have commenced Barbarossa earlier and possibly capture Moscow.
 
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