Best OTL bolt action rifle?

I second that. The Arisaka action is likely the strongest of the lot. All except the "last ditch" rifles came with chromed barrels, which is nice. In addition, the 6.5x50mm Arisaka is an ideal round for the distances the battles would actually be fought at--the military was stupid to give it up. It's a light round, so the men can carry more ammo. It has a lighter kick than most of its competitors, resulting in less unnecessary soldier fatigue. Finally, the round is very easy to learn--it has very little drop, it shoots right where you are aiming.

As a note, the 7.7x58mm round was adopted because the 6.5mm round lacked stopping power. Unlike in an assault rifle, you can't just double tap an opponent. The first round has to make the stop.
 
As a note, the 7.7x58mm round was adopted because the 6.5mm round lacked stopping power. Unlike in an assault rifle, you can't just double tap an opponent. The first round has to make the stop.

I know that was the thinking, sure. I am sure the new round was more lethal, but I still think the 6.5x50mm was sufficiently powerful. Honestly, I think a lot of it was pyschological--the Chinese were using a bigger, longer-ranged round, and so the Japanese adopted one, too. Keep in mind that the long-range 7.7x58mm round was adopted for machine guns (where it would actually be useful, at least for interdiction purposes) in 1932, but they didn't bother making a rifle in that caliber until *1939*. To me, that shows that they didn't consider it a priority. The only real problem with the 6.5x50mm is that it doesn't yaw on entry, but that's common to rounds of the period.

One thing that I think points to the effectiveness of bullets in the 6.5 range: while during the 30's, Italy and Japan would move from this size to something bigger, after the war, *everyone* adopted something in this range or smaller. In my opinion, the 6.5x50mm was ahead of its time. While you are correct that part of this is because of the ease of follow-up hits, most of it is simply because 6.5 is the sweet spot between speed and bullet weight. If you are fighting within 300m, it'll put your man down. Most stories to the contrary are either bad luck or exaggerations. The 7.7 range will kill on the first hit almost every time, but if the 6.5 will do it 90% of the time, is it really worth the extra weight, fatigue, and reduced ammo capacity?
 
I'd have to say it's between the Mauser '98 and the Lee Enfield. Both are amazing weapons that saw their way through both World Wars.
 

Adler

Banned
Folks, the Mauser, which I would vote for myself, had another breechlock called System 98. So technically it is not exactly the bolt action system. However, as very much related to it, I would say, this is the best OTL bolt action rifle.

Adler
 
For a sniper/target rifle the Mauser action has the advantage in extreme range accuracy.

For a battle rifle the Lee Enfield 3 and 4 are what you want. Fast action, large magazine, deadly accurate at battle ranges and soldier proof reliability. Its only real fault was the rimmed .303 cartridge. Theres nothing much wrong with a rifle thats still in military use more than 100 years after its initial introduction. 123 if you count the Lee Metford.
 
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I own both a Springfield 1903 and a Argentina Mauser and have since the late 60's they both are very nice rifles to fire and are great hunting rifles for those of us who 1 shot is a kill but both the 8 millimeter and the .306 are large rounds and have a kick and you are lucky to be able to carry 160 rounds with you in combat gear for those two rifles .
I've carried the M-14 , the M-1 , the M-1a1 carbine and the M-16 in combat in vietnam most of the time the range of combat was under 200 meters the greater range was not needed that is why the US went with a lighter round .
I never liked the M-16 but that had to do with getting one of the first ones that we were told did not need to be cleaned it jammed on me in combat and I was forced to use my pistol in combat .

But a smaller round is better for smaller people like the pre war generation of Japanese and most people from Asia . And a smaller round like the 6.5 mm is easier to teach a person how to fire a rifle for the first time. And remember most of time you are training people how to fire for the first time .
 

Adler

Banned
Ward, did you go after AK-47 in the case you could get one? I heard, US soldiers often tried to get one. Also do you think the 5,56 mm ammo is better or worse than the 7,62 mm?

Adler
 
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Its only real fault was the rimmed .303 cartridge.

Rimmed cartrideges are less efficent in automatic weapon feeding systems but there is nothing wrong with the old .303 round it is a proper man killer in fact the Germans thought the British were using exploding bullets in both world wars they caused so much damage. I have fired 7.92 and .303 and the .303 does more damage to the target, firing at a railway sleeper (railway tie for americans) the 7.92 will leave a splintered exit hole about 3 times the bullet diameter the .303 will leave an exit hole big enough to put your fist into with large splinters travelling 30 yards down range. Have a look at what these guys found http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot37.htm They are really experienced shooters and know what they are talking about having fired seemingly every weapon on the planet.
 
OTL market sales

regardless of what we thinkl now, it's clear that mauser pretty much owned the rifle world market in the WW1/WW2 days. The list of countries using mausers is likely to be bigger than the list of countries using other rifles. So mauser must have had either some major advantage or a amazing sales team.
Regarding the valid points mentioned about the Japanese 6.5x50mm I would think the main reason why most armies used verypowerfull rounds was that those rounds were primarally meant for machine Guns, and it was nice from a logistic point of view to have the same round in rifles and MG. That meant, of course, that most people got rounds that were a bit too powerfull for the avarge rifle shoter, and underpowered for the heavy MG of the day.
Most rifle fire in action is under 200m, but MG teams fire at much longer ranges and I still remember doing calculation for "over the hill" masked long range area saturation fire for MG in exercises. The germans wanted their Maxims to be able to fire at 1000m and the mausers got their overpowered ammo as a result.
 
japanese ammo

As a footnote, I remember that when the JSDF went for the 7,62x51NATO round they used a reduced charge version because they regarded the usual loading as to powerful for the average japanese soldier in terams of recoil. Since the 60s japanese soldier was probably bigger than the 30s one, the change from 6.5 to 7.7 rifles must of been a bit unpleasant for the IJA units that actually got the new caliber rifles...
 
First, this doesn't seem to be AH. This probably should be moved to chat.

Second, the OP doesn't limit it to military rifles--just bolt action rifles.

Third, any fool knows that Weatherby rifles are the bolt action rifles of choice.
 
For pure accuracy choose the Mauser 96 in 6.5x55.

For a killer military rifle ideal for militias, home guards etc.....Lee Enfield 3 or 4 or 5.

All excellent.
 
Snipers

Most AF bought AI rifles rather than weatherby MkV wen thei cahnge to .338 lapua Magnum
It couldn't have been on price alone, since armies tend not to care much about price when sniper rifles are concerned...
 
As a footnote, I remember that when the JSDF went for the 7,62x51NATO round they used a reduced charge version because they regarded the usual loading as to powerful for the average japanese soldier in terams of recoil. Since the 60s japanese soldier was probably bigger than the 30s one, the change from 6.5 to 7.7 rifles must of been a bit unpleasant for the IJA units that actually got the new caliber rifles...

I pretty much consider 6,5mm as the optimal caliber, with the 6,5mm Swedish mauser the best of them. I think the 6,5 swedish with a shortened cartridge would be a good replacement for the .223
The japanese weren't the only ones to operate the 6,5. As already stated the Swedish mauser, or the dutch 6,5x53R Mannlicher

Most AF bought AI rifles rather than weatherby MkV wen thei cahnge to .338 lapua Magnum
It couldn't have been on price alone, since armies tend not to care much about price when sniper rifles are concerned...

There is a reason that the AI artic warfare series are in so much use, so would consider it the best modern bolt action (and the mauser as all time best)
 
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Best Mauser ever

The 6,5x55mm swedish mausers were arguably the best mausers ever, and the M41 sniper version was superb. The M38 short rifle version was a serious candidate for best WWII era rifle.
 
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