Best Inter war Norwegian Navy

That's right they rejected HMS Gorgon post WW1 as the torpedo bulges the British had added made them too wide for their docks
 
There was nothing really wrong with the Norwegian navy as it was. Sure, you could remove the coastal defence ships and add two cruiser-sized mine layers (akin to the Swedish HMS Clas Fleming) instead, modernize the torpedo boat/destroyer fleet and add more MTBs and torpedo bombers, but the main problem for Norway was its desperate unwillingness to realise its precarious position and its unwillingness to take its neutrality seriously.

They allowed the Altmark to sail into Norwegian waters with contraband (prisoners of war) without inspecting her properly and then allowed the British to take an action of war (board the Altmark) in Norwegian waters without intervening despite having several vessels closeby.

That on its own was bad, but even as both the British and Germans proved more than willing to violate Norwegian neutrality, the Norwegian government did absolutely nothing to ensure this would not happen again or ensure either party that they would defend their neutrality next time.

The Swedish military attaché got reports from Swedish merchant sailors that the Germans were loading troops on ships in the Baltic ports and confirmed them with his contacts in the German armed forces, getting the message that they would invade Denmark and Norway and then continue onwards to the Netherlands to flank the Maginot line (the latter part was wrong) and informed his Norwegian counterpart on the 31st of March.

On the 6th of April, the head of Swedish intelligence, Colonel Carlos Adlercreutz confirmed the German plan independently and warned the Norwegians.

On the morning of the 8th of April, the German military attaché in Finland told his Swedish counterpart that the Germans would invade Denmark and Norway on the next day, but Sweden did not need to worry as it was not targeted. The Swedish military attaché relayed this information to the Swedish foreign minister to senty a telegram to his Danish and Norwegian counterparts before lunch on the 8th, warning them. Combined with the fact that the Norwegian navy had rescued fully uniformed and equipped (with weapon belts, helmets etc.) German soldiers from the steamer Rio de Janeiro which had been sunk by a Polish submarine on the morning of the 8th, and the Germans had bragged that they would soon be freed by their comrades as they invaded Norway, one could think the Nowegians would do something.

The Norwegian parliament debated late into the evening of the 8th, and ordered a partial mobilization to be delivered by letter on the 11th, without issuing any general order to increase alert.

The Norwegian navy and army were weak, with old equipment, little training and in a serious need of modernisation on all levels, but would have been capable of throwing the Germans back into the sea had they actually been mentally and organisationally prepared.

If they are not, minelayers, MTBs and good torpedo boats/destroyers are just nice extra equipment for the German navy when they capture it.
 
Eidsvold and Norge could have damaged German destroyers, but not sure what difference it would have made as they were both sunk by the RN shortly after. . German Navy couldn't have done much worse off Norway but not sure if the Norwegians could have done much that the RN didnt do
 
(Norge & Eidsvold) Land their guns - keeping the larger guns and torpedo tubes to create new coastal forts and keeping the 3" guns for mounting on STUFT vessels turning them into gun boats / patrol boats - and use the Hulks as depot ships / classrooms etc

But far more importantly is to have a robust and unambiguous ROE for the crews manning the ships and the forts.

The Germans got off lightly on the 9th April 1940 - had more or all of the Norwegian defenses opened fire first and asked questions later then much of the first wave of ships that forced their way into various ports would have gone the way of Blucher and with the ability to rapidly deploy multiple mine fields - Norway could have defended its 'Neutrality'.
Yup. The most effective use of big guns by the Norwegians in April 1940 was the 11" guns of the Oscarborg fortress, along with the land-based torpedo battery. And also to your point, Col. Ericsson made the decision to fire on the Blucher when the time and position was right. He did not dither about the decision
 
One needs a POD to make the Norwegian government willing to spend funds on defence, with a view that in order to remain neutral they need to enforce that neutrality themselves.

As long as the only credible threat to Norwegian neutrality is their traditional protector, Britain, there is little perceived need to uphold a navy or anything military-related.
 
Eidsvold and Norge could have damaged German destroyers, but not sure what difference it would have made as they were both sunk by the RN shortly after. . German Navy couldn't have done much worse off Norway but not sure if the Norwegians could have done much that the RN didnt do
IF the Norge or Eidsvold gets some damaging hits on the German destroyers, that should reduce the number of troops in the invading force, plus maybe stiffen the spine of the Norwegian ground force commander in Narvik. Either way, that makes the initial seizing of the port more problematic. Also, it would have helped the RN's work on the next day, when they sank the German destroyers at Narvik. The historic problem with that one day delay was the "shutting the door after the horse has left the barn".
 
One needs a POD to make the Norwegian government willing to spend funds on defence, with a view that in order to remain neutral they need to enforce that neutrality themselves.

As long as the only credible threat to Norwegian neutrality is their traditional protector, Britain, there is little perceived need to uphold a navy or anything military-related.
Yeah, that would also do wonders with the Norwegian mentality that they were not under threat - Britain would prevent any kind of attack on them. The only two options I can think of is a much stronger German navy (for some reason) or the Soviets for some odd reason declaring that they have a natrual right to an ice-free North Sea port and demands that Norway hand over Narvik after they've taken Petsamo (or all of Finland in a scenario without the March peace).
 
Buy 5 RN 1st generation Dreadnoughts for scrap prices to replace the older coast defence ships. Remove the wing turrets for coastal forts. Add a battery of 6” and 4” guns in the old wing turret place. Fit mine rails on aft deck. Keep the 5th ship for spares. Each ship is superior to anything the Swedish or Germans can muster.
Battleships with big guns give the locals more confidence than some MTB. In holding ports, batteries defending minefields will be more reliable than MTB. Submarines add that level of doubt for an attacker but are expensive. MTB are what you can acquire in a war warning period rather than a long term capability. Battleships need not be fully manned and as a training tool and port guard ship can provide a depth of reservists to build on.
Really bad idea. Yeah, they look impressive. Until they roll over and explode after being torpedoed by German U-Boats. There are a lot better options for Norway than a handful of horrifically obsolete first generation Dreadnaughts
 
Really bad idea. Yeah, they look impressive. Until they roll over and explode after being torpedoed by German U-Boats. There are a lot better options for Norway than a handful of horrifically obsolete first generation Dreadnaughts
Would a cheaper option for a ship of force like 12,000ish ton balanced CA be feasible/a good idea?
 
Would a cheaper option for a ship of force like 12,000ish ton balanced CA be feasible/a good idea?
Probably not. Norway doesn't have the resources to go toe-to-toe with either Germany or the UK. They need to go asemetric. Things like MTBs and subs
 
Probably not. Norway doesn't have the resources to go toe-to-toe with either Germany or the UK. They need to go asemetric. Things like MTBs and subs
This. In Norway's case(*edit* to create) the porcupine defense? (Leave porky alone, he's not bothering anyone and it's going to hurt a lot if you do.)
 
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Really bad idea. Yeah, they look impressive. Until they roll over and explode after being torpedoed by German U-Boats.
What U boats? At the start of the inter war period Germany was banned from having submarines.
At the start of 1914, Norway had 4 small coast defence ships and 2 on order. Sweden had announced that it would build a squadron of 8 modern battleships. In recent years the Netherlands Navy minster lost his job for proposing small battleships and Sweden’s government was shamed into buying bigger in that that the population will fund what they expect out of popular subscription. Replacing small battleships with bigger ones is a continuation of that policy.
 
Yup. The most effective use of big guns by the Norwegians in April 1940 was the 11" guns of the Oscarborg fortress, along with the land-based torpedo battery. And also to your point, Col. Ericsson made the decision to fire on the Blucher when the time and position was right. He did not dither about the decision
I read that for some reason the Norwegians actually reactivated the 1890's vintage Whitehead torpedo battery after the war ended. They ended up modernizing the battery at least once (not sure to what degree they improved them) most recently in the 1980s. The battery was only actually disarmed and abandoned in 1993 after the cold war had ended. I mean it's kind of miraculous the Norweigans managed to accomplish as much as they did with the torpedo battery in 1940. I'm really not sure what exactly Whitehead torpedo's from the McKinley administration would accomplish in the 1980s.
 
I doubt they were using Whitehead Torpedoes after WWII. They'll have put in modern tubes when they refurbished the battery. For one thing no one was making the 19th century era torpedoes anymore.
 
I read that for some reason the Norwegians actually reactivated the 1890's vintage Whitehead torpedo battery after the war ended. They ended up modernizing the battery at least once (not sure to what degree they improved them) most recently in the 1980s. The battery was only actually disarmed and abandoned in 1993 after the cold war had ended. I mean it's kind of miraculous the Norweigans managed to accomplish as much as they did with the torpedo battery in 1940. I'm really not sure what exactly Whitehead torpedo's from the McKinley administration would accomplish in the 1980s.
I can't swear to this, but I thought the torpedoes used in 1940 were Austro-Hungarian in origin? The launching battery went back to the 1890's though.... I believe.......

*edit* Oscarborg Fortress
Torpedo battery[edit]
Having been constructed in 1898–1901,[4] and put into service on 15 July 1901,[5] the underground torpedo facility remained one of the few Norwegian defence installations unknown to German military intelligence at the point of the 9 April 1940 invasion. The battery was one of two in Norway and differed from the other torpedo battery, at Kvarven Fort, in that it was designed to launch its torpedoes from under the water level,[6] instead of by torpedo tube from above ground as was the case with the battery at Kvarven outside Bergen.[4]

At Oscarsborg the torpedo battery is a concrete construction inside a cave mined into the rock of the North Kaholmen island. Two torpedoes are loaded side by side, in two open steel frames. Then one of the two frames is lowered like an elevator down into the water to the tunnels below. After one shot, it took some time to swap frames and be ready for the next. When fired, the torpedo's own compressed air engine was started and it propelled itself.[4] The battery has three torpedo tunnels which could fire six torpedoes without reloading and a total of nine torpedoes was stored and ready for use.[6] Each weapon carried a 100 kg TNT warhead[7] and targets were spotted from three observation bunkers just above the battery.[4]

The torpedoes were delivered in 1900 from the Whitehead torpedo factory in Fiume, then part of Austria-Hungary.[8] A back-up observation bunker is situated just outside the entrance to the battery.
I found another reference that stated the 1940 torpedoes were the 1890 models.
 
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Why not seagoing escort trawlers? The kind of cheap small vessels that were American DEs or British sloops. They can do patrol boat work, mine warfare, and the anti-submarine work required in WW1 (and historic WW2). That could round out a fleet of MTBs.
 
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