Best & greatest battles never fought

US Army, 1865 vs. anyone. I remember somebody here saying that the Union could have taken on any standing army in the world at the time and won.
 
Originally posted by Blizrun
US Army, 1865 vs. anyone. I remember somebody here saying that the Union could have taken on any standing army in the world at the time and won.
Well, I wouldnt be so sure about that. How about Prussians?
 
US Army, 1865 vs. anyone. I remember somebody here saying that the Union could have taken on any standing army in the world at the time and won.

The problem remains of how to get that 'anyone' to them (because with the US Navy being what it is, they aren't going anywhere).

Personally, I'd call it a bit of hyperbole. The USA had gone from an underfunded, undermanned and amateurish military to a large, battle-tested. professionally run and highly motivated force in the course of the war, certainly on par with any army in the world. But I very much doubt they were automatically better than any other army. Certainly any other army one it was in America would lose to them because of logistics, but the same would apply vice versa, so you'd have to do some gladiator-esque setup to test the proposition, but if the Army of the Potomac were to face off against the Prussian First Army I'd say the odds are even.
 
Timeline idea. The Second Battle of Toowombia 12th of Jan to the 12th of June 1943: the turning point of the Japanese invasion of Australia.
Combatents
Allies Axis
Australia Japan
The USA Manchucko
New England Indonesia​
 
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The problem remains of how to get that 'anyone' to them (because with the US Navy being what it is, they aren't going anywhere).

Personally, I'd call it a bit of hyperbole. The USA had gone from an underfunded, undermanned and amateurish military to a large, battle-tested. professionally run and highly motivated force in the course of the war, certainly on par with any army in the world. But I very much doubt they were automatically better than any other army. Certainly any other army one it was in America would lose to them because of logistics, but the same would apply vice versa, so you'd have to do some gladiator-esque setup to test the proposition, but if the Army of the Potomac were to face off against the Prussian First Army I'd say the odds are even.

If I recall correctly, America's true advantage wasn't its logistics or manpower, but its experience with more advanced weapons. I can't remember specifically, but it had to do with forward charges, repeating rifles and the use of trenches. The European armies at the time had observed Union troops modifying their tactics accordingly (one of which was increased spacing between troops), but dismissed them, believing that proper armies (their own) would fare better than the Americans.
 
To get back on track a little bit, how about the Battle of the Philippines?

With surprise lost at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese are not immediately successful in their attack on the Philippines. Thus, reinforcements are rushed to the islands, leading to a ferocious battle fought on even terms between two evenly matched opponents. While the Japanese have the better of the early engagements, American manpower eventually wins out and repulses the Japanese assaults.
 

Rocano

Banned
The Battle of Galway: This battle won by the Irish-French Army defeated the British and assured the Victory and Independence of the Republic of Connaught.
 
The Final Battle of Dublin: The combined English and Scottish armies finally crushed the Irish rebellion, ensuring the Great Cromwell's reign over the Isles.
 

Thande

Donor
The Battle of Boston: the Irish and British finally agree that ridiculous American fantasies about Ireland must be stopped; the entire Irish population of 4.5 million is put under arms and transported to Massachussetts using the Royal Navy, where they defeat the Feniyanks and send them to a penal colony in Michigan.
 
To get back on track a little bit, how about the Battle of the Philippines?

With surprise lost at Pearl Harbor, the Japanese are not immediately successful in their attack on the Philippines. Thus, reinforcements are rushed to the islands, leading to a ferocious battle fought on even terms between two evenly matched opponents. While the Japanese have the better of the early engagements, American manpower eventually wins out and repulses the Japanese assaults.

This could actually be a very bad disaster for the US. If the Japanese haven't lost their carrier force - depends on what you mean by surprise lost at Pearl - then the USN might be politically committed to a relieve attempt. In which case their likely to get slaughtered as the Japanese not only have much better logistics [and US worse] compared to say the Solomons but a lot of ground based air support.

It has been suggested that the Japanese would have been better off NOT attacking Pearl or the Philippines. Even if the US still declares war there wouldn't be the rage at the Japanese sneak attack and the Philippines would be virtually indefensible.

Steve
 
And of course [shameless plug]:

-Battle of the Straits: July 17th, 2002, spanish airforce and navy gain superiority over the Straits of Gibraltar.
-Battle of Melilla: July 17th-18th: The moroccan army penetrates deeply into Melilla, the city is surrendered to prevent greater civilian losses.
-Battle of Ceuta: July 17th-22nd: The moroccan army penetrates into Ceuta, only to be stopped at the gates of the inner city, encircled by a spanish landing in the 20th and destroyed to pieces.
-Battle of Congress Island: The spanish garrison repeals a moroccan landing on the Chafarinas Islands
-Operation Blue: July 20th, the spanish land in three beaches around Ceuta, encircling the bulk of the Moroccan army.
- 1st Smara : July 20th, the moroccan garrison at Smara repeals a Polisario column advancing towards the city.
- Battle of Tangiers: July 21st; spanish armoured forces break through the moroccan lines, capturing Tangiers and smashing to bits the moroccan western flank.
-Battle of El Aaiun,(aka Operation Black); July 22nd: Spanish airborne troops capture El Aaiun airforce and naval bases to open the way for an armoured thrust towards the city. After the city is surrendered, the spanish force repeals a moroccan counterattack, wiping out the last moroccan armoured units.
-2nd Smara; July 22nd: Polisario and spanish troops are finally able to enter Smara.

[/shameless plug]
 
The Battle of Boston: the Irish and British finally agree that ridiculous American fantasies about Ireland must be stopped; the entire Irish population of 4.5 million is put under arms and transported to Massachussetts using the Royal Navy, where they defeat the Feniyanks and send them to a penal colony in Michigan.

Oddly enough, I live in Massachusetts, and most of the fantasies about Ireland that I've heard come from British people on this forum complaining about said fantasies. :rolleyes::p
 

Redbeard

Banned
Battle of Schlüchtern 28-29th of October 1813:

Instead of wasting valuable time and ammo at Würzburg Wrede and his 55.000 Bavarians and Austrians go straight for Schlüchtern and set up a strong defensive position across the narrow valley.

Soon after the avantgarde of the Grande Armee, retreating from Lepizig, shows up, and is repulsed. An attempt to deploy a strong battery of Guard artillery is overrun by Bavarian and Austrian cavalry, the valley is too narrow for the French to bring forward enough troops at anyone time. In the late afternoon of the 28th an attack column lead by several battalions of the Old Guard is sent forward, but only to be massacered by the murderous fire from more than 100 Bavarian and Austrian guns. Sonn the alarming words "La Garde recule!" sounds through the French ranks and meets the columns marching in from the east. During the night confusion rules among the French making it a very difficult job to bring forward intact troops to renew the attack in the morning.

Soon after first light the news spread of Schwarzenberg and the Bohemian Army having made contact with the French rearguard. Napoleon know it is now or never and immediately throws all available units into the attack. The troops, most in battalions formed during the night from scattered troops, attack valiantly, but again only to be moved down by allied fire.

In the East the rearguard only offer ineffective resistance, many troops prefer to flee in any direction rather than going into the valley or being run over by the Bohemian army.

By noon it is clear from Wrede's position that Scwarzenberg is near and he orders a general attack. The tired and disorganised French troops waver and soon only a few hundred French troops are under effective command, mainly Guardsmen and officers under Napoleon himself. On a small hill they form square to await the final assault.

Initially the allied troops are too busy rounding up prisoners to recognise the significance of the square, but then an aide of Wrede's identify the little Corsican. Soon allied cavalry squadron start to fight each other over who is going to take the ultimate trophy. In the meantime a nearby battery fire several rounds into the square creating carnage. The Landwehr Battalion of the Austrian 59th Infantry Regiment utilise the opportunity however and charge. Soon manure stinking but strong armed Austrian peasants bajonet French Colonels and Marshalls. The honour of killing Napoleon falls on Corporal Schickelgruber, but himself dying from a blow from Napoleons rapier.

Back in Austria Schickelgruber's parents mourn the death of their only son. Now the Schickelgrubers will die out, but at least they did so in an galant effort to remove a dreadful dictator...

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
Battle of Debrecen, 1957

A crucial turning point for anti-Communist rebels in the Hungarian Liberation War's second year. Had the Soviets succeeded in their attempts to oust the rebels from the Northern Great Plain regional capital, it most likely would have meant the end of Hungary's struggle to break free of the Soviet orbit and would have prevented NATO from aiding Czechoslovakia in its own secession from the Warsaw Pact five years later.
 
Excellent thread!

I'm new to this forum this week, so I suppose am just finding my feet. Here's a few initial offerings:


The Battle of Woking: 15 August 1940
Outnumbered and outgunned, the men of the 167th (London Brigade) held their positions between Knaphill and Woking Park for eight bloody hours against repeated assaults from Rommell's 7th Panzer Division.

The Battle of Nottingham: Palm Sunday 1486

Heeding the advice of Sir Richard Ratcliffe and Viscount Lovell to remember how many loyal followers he still has north of the Trent, Richard iii deserts his position on Ambion Hill and rides north to rally support in his northern heartlands. Henry Tudor is ready to pursue, but is persuaded not to by Sir William Stanley. "For your Grace has the meat of the kingdom this day - let the usurper make what he will of the bones".

Henry marches on London forthwith, where he is proclaimed King Henry VII by a coalition of his Welsh supporters and former Yorkist lords loyal to Elizabeth Woodville. A list of attainders is rapidly passed against the previous regime's leaders and their lands and goods are (where possible) seized.

Richard III meanwhile reaches York, where he issues Commisiions of Array to arm the commons of Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and Westmoreland against "Our great rebel and traitor, Henry Earl of Richmond, lately come into Our realm of England." Richard's years spent building Yorkist influence in the North pay off and recruits flock to his banner. However, before he can reclaim his kingdom there is the issue of the Percys to deal with.

Richard's options are limited - he cannot take the fight to Henry without securing his rear. Northumberland's lack of support must be solved - either by his execution and replacement with a proper pro-Ricardian or by his rehabilitation. Richard lacks Edward IV's easy charm and winning ways, but he must get Northumberland on side somehow. If he does, then this alternative future seems more workable.

It has been suggested that by the time of Bosworth, Richard had already lost the propaganda war. He was the suspected murderer of his brother's sons and the tragic death of his own wife and son in 1484 seemed, in that superstitious age, to be ample proof of his guilt. Moreover, he had no heir other than John de la Pole.

Nevertheless, I postulate an encouraged and revitalised Richard in York, perhaps thinking of his elder brother Edward, the man who had lost the kingdom at least twice and on each occasion won it back against odds just as heavy as Richard now faces. Time then for one last battle, one final bloodbath in which this time there will be no mercy shown and no quarter given. Come what may, he will secure the kingdom.


The actual battle took place along the neck of rising ground between the villages of Ruddington and Normanton on the Wolds and like Towton 25 years before was especially boody and hardfought. On this occasion though there is no snowstorm - instead driving rain helps turn the battlefield into a morass.

That's it for now - i need to do some more reasrech before I can postulate a convincing outcome...
 
Second Battle of Blood River (May 3rd 1938)-During the disastrous Xhosa Wars the hastily assembled British militias found their backs against the Blood River where the Boers had defeated the Zulu armies of Dingane close to a century before.

However the Zulus hadn't been funded and supplemented by Prussian troops with a chip on their shoulder and a memory of the Restoration of Hannover.

Suffice to say the combined Xhosa/Prussian force crushed the last real resistance to eventual German dominance in Africa and reduced the British Empire to their holdings in China and Japan.
 
(excerpt from an ATL history book)

The Persian-Ottoman War of 1934 was sparked by a small disagreement over borders. The war lasted three days officially. It is noteworthy as the only war in which German-built airships were used extensively by both sides in a single battle.

The first and last battle of the War took place one hundred fifty kilometres ENE of Baghdad. Trench lines were dug, kilometre-long tunnels in the sand, many of which are still visible today [1978]. Flamme-panzers, fueled by oil from wells near the conflict, were used by the Ottomans in an early attempt to gain and hold ground. However, Persian zeppelins rained small bombs on Ottoman lines from above, forcing them to pull back.

The Persian air superiority was short-lived, however. Ottoman Fokker triplanes, of First Colonial War vintage, were soon in the air. The Ottoman airship fleet arrived soon after, bringing a much-needed morale boost to the Turk soldiers on the ground. However, the Persian airships were much more numerous, and with their own aeroplanes in the air soon afterwards, dozens of airships on either side were shot down.

After a few hours, the remaining aeroplanes were forced to land for fuel, but the surviving zeppelins did not. The 125 remaining Ottoman airships and the 221 Persian airships began a pitched battle for the skies that would not be equaled until the Russo-Germanic war thirty years later. In one spectacular incident, an Ottoman airship deliberately rammed a Persian, crushing it into two of its fellows and bringing all four down in a pile of burning, twisted metal, canvas, and fuel.

The day was won for the Ottomans thanks to the bravery of her airship crews; the battle in the air allowed the ground forces to regroup and counterattack. Persian forces were forced to retreat. Though her air forces suffered great losses, the war assured Ottoman dominance of Middle Eastern affairs for another twenty years.

(excerpt over)

So. Hundreds of Ottoman airships fighting hundreds of Persian airships, all the while dropping bombs over the desert, with dozens of Fokker DR.1 triplanes wheeling and diving amongst them, must have been an awesome sight to behold. Why couldn't I have been born in that timeline?
 
The Battle of Mazar-e-Sharif, July 1998

One of the Iranian army's most crucial victories in its 1998 border war with the Taliban militia in Afghanistan.
 
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