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Scary! Christian fundamentalists are the scariest religous nutters in the world, they would show the moslem fundamentalists a thing or two about Jihad!

Even as an agnostic who rather dislikes the chistian churches in general, I cannot but get offended on behalf of christianism here.

I fail to see any kind of scary christian religious nutters organization routinely blowing thenselves up in a public market to kill unbelievers, nor I have noticed any dictatorial christian theocracy on the latest news.
 

Susano

Banned
I fail to see any kind of scary christian religious nutters organization routinely blowing thenselves up in a public market to kill unbelievers, nor I have noticed any dictatorial christian theocracy on the latest news.

Maybe, but that is exactly because the church is weaker than it once was.
 
I say poland. they had a large population, they were fairly wealthy from grain exports, but they had one of the most ineffectual systems of governence in the world. their government was paralyzed because one nobleman in the pay of a foreign power could destroy the work of an entire session of the parliament. if they had a working, centralized government and good leaders, they could do a lot in the 1600s.
 
Scary! Christian fundamentalists are the scariest religous nutters in the world, they would show the moslem fundamentalists a thing or two about Jihad!

Fundamentalism is as modern as secularism. Fundamentalists are just reacting to a secular world they can no longer make sense of. If there was less of a disconnection between past and present, there would be less frustration with religion, and religion would be a lot less contentious of an issue. Of course, the way to do it is to have the church be flexible enough to bend and not break.
 

Susano

Banned
Fundamentalism is as modern as secularism. Fundamentalists are just reacting to a secular world they can no longer make sense of.
In a way, as a movement, yes. Yet we would have to qualify all medieval European states as fundamentalist in one way or another. What fundamentalism want IS after all a return to the time where religion was the dominating social force.

And even if what you said were all true, it would STILL be a bad scenario. There is just no reason to give any special rights or special social recognition to any religious group, even if they are the majority! Equality for all!
 
In a way, as a movement, yes. Yet we would have to qualify all medieval European states as fundamentalist in one way or another. What fundamentalism want IS after all a return to the time where religion was the dominating social force.

And even if what you said were all true, it would STILL be a bad scenario. There is just no reason to give any special rights or special social recognition to any religious group, even if they are the majority! Equality for all!

Well, you can have strong Christian identity without being totally anti-modern and medieval. A strong Islamic identity persists in today's world even as many Muslim states are modern in most ways and a few even have equal rights for religious minorities.

I'm not advocating medievalism. In fact, I'm not advocating anything--Even as an atheist, I think a TL where cultural and material progress is led by the Church would be fascinating. Rather than medieval-wank, think of it as Jesuit-wank and nationalism-screw. Imagine a different Europe where the Catholic Church transformed itself into an EU while its orders of monks discovered general relativity and created abstract expressionist artworks, while nationalism became stillborn, and let's say that by 2010, we have about 80% of people that speak fluent Latin as a universal language. A world where the renaissance never died got popularized instead.
 
Maybe, but that is exactly because the church is weaker than it once was.

That is irrelevant. What happened in the past -centuries past in the case of christian "theocracies" is that, the past. You, as a germanophile, should know that, as the Nazis are literally within living memory.

The facts still are than no established christian church -anywere in the world- supports the death of unbelievers or the divine right of priests to set the laws -in fact, some of them, like the evil papists, actually forbid priests to be candidates for public positions. Those who try to set christian laws, like the (infamous) US fundametalists, do so within an established democratic sistem.
 
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