Best Action for Wehrmacht in Early 1942

Deleted member 1487

What if Rommel really presses Hitler to give him more support. Hitler wants to launch a summer offensive in the East but decides to appease Rommel by throwing everything his way in hopes of taking the Middle East.
North Africa was a sideshow to the decisive war in the East. The oil issue was simply too important to ignore with the US entry into the war, so there is nothing that Rommel could do in 1942 to get more resources; in fact I'd say he was given too many as it was.
 
What if Rommel really presses Hitler to give him more support. Hitler wants to launch a summer offensive in the East but decides to appease Rommel by throwing everything his way in hopes of taking the Middle East.

'Heia Safari' does not get the Germans the Lebensraum in the East. It is contrary to the Nazi ideology.
 
What if Rommel really presses Hitler to give him more support. Hitler wants to launch a summer offensive in the East but decides to appease Rommel by throwing everything his way in hopes of taking the Middle East.

Rommel didn't even had the logistic to supply correctly the Afrikakorps and you want to gave him more units ?
 
Rommel didn't even had the logistic to supply correctly the Afrikakorps and you want to gave him more units ?

I really think there should be a sticky named 'Heia Safari - not so much' that would make people realize why exactly it was that everyone on European side of Mediterranean Sea who spoke German and was not in the Kriegsmarine (Roeder, I am looking at you) knew the Desert war was a sideshow and not worth going to.
 
I really think there should be a sticky named 'Heia Safari - not so much' that would make people realize why exactly it was that everyone on European side of Mediterranean Sea who spoke German and was not in the Kriegsmarine (Roeder, I am looking at you) knew the Desert war was a sideshow and not worth going to.

But, but, the Afrika Korps, it did stuff, and Rommel, he was so cool, I mean, what if the Germanys had just sent more men, WWII would have been victory!
 
What if Rommel really presses Hitler to give him more support. Hitler wants to launch a summer offensive in the East but decides to appease Rommel by throwing everything his way in hopes of taking the Middle East.

Rommel Winning still won't help anything.

Even with somehow smashing Monty, there isn't logistics to get past the Canal, let alone bring any Iraqi Oil back
 
Manstein Plan?

Sichelschnitt? Yeah, I thought of that one, as I wrote the line. So yes, there are instances where enemy might cooperate with the plan. However, most of the plans that count on it as indispensable ingredient will fail.

The Germans were prepared and could succeed even if some of assumptions involved in Sichelschnitt were not correct. And most were, the only one I can remember was the French reaction time. And that one was reasonable assumption.

Assumption that the Red Army will not fight or that Soviet soldier is less brave or determined than the German one was not a reasonable assumption. As it turned out almost immediately.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Friedrich_Fromm

Staying on the defence in the East and focusing efforts elsewhere also an option.

The problems are twofold. One is that this allows Soviets to build up as well. without casualties suffered at (approaches to) Stalingrad Soviets grow faster. Quality would offset it, but only so much. Second problem is that sitting still is simply not in German military nature. Not Hitler, not Nazis but German military. One of tennets of German military doctrine is "when in doubt, attack". Staying on defensive in 1942 is not something that would go against Hitler's view only, it's soemthing that would go against German military view as well.
 
But, but, the Afrika Korps, it did stuff, and Rommel, he was so cool, I mean, what if the Germanys had just sent more men, WWII would have been victory!


Lol, being cool unfortunately was not a skill that would substitute for deficiencies in logistics and numbers

Rommel was badly outnumbered in tanks, artillery, men and aircraft. For him to have done so well with what he had was amazing; but there was no way he could have made it to the Suez without back up, which would be difficult to provide in it of itself due to British control of the ocean and the lack of usable ports in the Italian held cities of North Africa that would allow for a force with parity against the British.
 

Deleted member 1487

Couldn't the Germans just evacuate the Africa Corps in 1942 for use on the Eastern Front and leave Africa to the Italians [except for a weaker panzer division]? The Africa Corps would be replaced by motorized Italian divisions. The rationale being that logistics are an issue and with the Japanese attacking Southeast Asia, the British might send some of the Indian and Australian troops to the Far East. They can permit a capture of Malta and an advance to Tobruk before withdrawing. If successful, they will be withdrawn once the offensive stalls in July.
Now, if the Africa Corps were withdrawn in August, what would be the effects? And, would they be in Stalingrad on time for countering Operation Uranus?

Yes it was theoretically possible, perhaps swapping the Italian 8th army in Russia for the Afrika Korps (or 5th Panzer army if sent to Russia), but for political reasons it was not possible. North Africa was also important strategically because Hitler thought the Soviets were about to fall apart in 1942 and the war against the Wallies would continue after that and advancing and taking the Suez would be critical to that effort, as it would pretty much make the Middle East an Axis playground.

Sending Rommel to Russia and the Italian 8th army to North Africa minus the Italian Alpine Corps sent to the Caucasus, swapping out for German infantry would improve the situation along the Don in 1942-43 somewhat, but its not going to fix that problem and the Italians will probably get smashed by the British and US forcing them from the war or even having them flip sides without German forces there making that politically impossible. Its a worse situation for Germany come 1943, as sending Rommel to the Don is not going to save the German 6th army, though it might lessen the blow of Operation Little Saturn a bit.
 
If then the push for oil was that imperative Case Blue being launched by the pre-battle plan would take them easily to Stalingrad by the end of July, more likely that not taking the city before the defenders could get defenses prepared enough a month later when they got their IOTL. I disagree with 'Nuker about the logistical ability to run 4th Panzer army directly at the city from July 13th on instead of diverting it south. Stalingrad then would most likely have fallen after a quick fight outside of it, rather than a grinding attritional fight inside. Then follow that up with a move into Maykop and once the falls focus on taking the ports along the Black Sea Coast rather than moving on Grozny. Don't keep necessary forces like the Italian Alpine Corps on the Don, send them to the Caucasus. Keep the 11th army with AG-South near the Don as a reserve. Then sit still in 1942 to hold their positions and interdict the Volga.

Otherwise they should not invade Egypt in 1942, instead take Malta. Once that is accomplished then consider moving into Egypt. Once the US lands in Morocco then pulled back to Libya and evacuate to Sicily rather than try to fight in Tunisia. Then with evacuated Italian forces and the Afrika Korps in Sicily, plus with Malta as an outpost invading Sicily is not an option, Greece is not a good option either, which leaves forces the Allies to invade Sardinia or France in 1943. If they go France the US lacks combat experience and a lot of other buffs (the Mulberry Harbors, oil pipeline to Portsmouth) for Normandy, plus the Luftwaffe hasn't yet been destroyed and its a lot easier to use it in France than over Tunisia/Italy to best effect. If my fighter option was chosen in 1942 then there should be more than enough to contest France in 1943 and if there hasn't be the Stalingrad disaster or Tunisian one there is enough left in France to resist an invasion, especially if there is not a Kursk offensive on the table in the East.

Its a decent strategy, keep attrition favorable, hit Soviet economics where reachable, secure the Black Sea, use the Italians in the mountains where their mules would be useful.

OTL, Hitler was concerned that evacuating North Africa might mean the end of Mussolini politically and might bring Turkey in the war on the Allied side. Perhaps here if you actually could secure the Black sea the Turkey concern would be less and perhaps an Italian "victory" in the Caucasus (and Malta) and avoiding the OTL December 1942 loss of the Italian eastern front army would make Mussolini more confident he could politically survive an evacuation of North Africa.
 
OTL, Hitler was concerned that evacuating North Africa might mean the end of Mussolini politically and might bring Turkey in the war on the Allied side. Perhaps here if you actually could secure the Black sea the Turkey concern would be less and perhaps an Italian "victory" in the Caucasus (and Malta) and avoiding the OTL December 1942 loss of the Italian eastern front army would make Mussolini more confident he could politically survive an evacuation of North Africa.

Well, I actually did this in my *plug*plug* AAR/TL https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-might-of-the-fatherland.853976/ I am planning to send Rommel with a bunch of mountain troops and mobile divisions into Turkey and then the Caucasus and Iraq, ASB as fuck but who cares?
 
Kill Adolf.

Purge Germany of the SS.

Open back channel negotiations with Stalin. Off him a return to 1939 borders.

Pull out of France and then ask for talks with Churchill and talk peace with the US.

The U.S. public is going to demand a Pacific first strategy if the new German government is trying to end the war. Churchill is going to start worrying about the balance of power in Europe between the Soviets and Germany.
 
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