Beringia, Alaska and Kamchatka!

What about this flag for Beringia?
I used normal white and yellow, the blue as in the flag of Alaska, and a beaver.
 
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What if you had a POD with prison camps made in what would later become Beringia, and with the Russian Civil War the prisoners, perhaps with some Marxist or Populist political prisoners, overpower the guards, declaring an independent state? If there's a few fishing towns or whatever, they can commandeer boats for their "navy" and for transport over the Straits. Yes, it wouldn't properly function as a state, but it would be very interesting. Or you could possibly have sailors from a battleship in a similar situation to the Potemkin going to Beringia and helping with the creation of the state. It wouldn't be a very strong administration, and likely wouldn't last too long without some strange diplomatic reason for being propped up by someone else, but it would be very, very cool. If it stayed around a few generations, you could even have a caste system with the Russian prisoners and servicemen on top, along with their children, mostly the result of intermarriages with the local Yupik women, and the purer Yupiks on the bottom. Could result in ethnic issues in a supposedly Communist state.

Extra cool if Beringia is administered from the permanently docked (lack of fuel and probably maintenance) ship.

Alternatively, you could have the Russians not ignore the gold in favour of fur trading, and have an earlier gold rush. The problem is this would likely involve an influx of American settlers. Perhaps have a situation with a Russian/Yupik Beringia, and an American Alaska, kinda like how Texas broke off from Mexico?

For an independent Kodiak Island, perhaps a small group of religious zealots, or some sort of cult, make their way to Kodiak Island as self-imposed isolation? They preserve their autonomy by giving the Russian govt. furs as a form of tribute (heavily regulated of course to keep out outside influence) and in the anarchy of the RCW, get de facto independence?

About Kamchatka, I'm sure others could come up with better ideas than me. The problem with Kamchatka is that it's connected to Russia by land, where Russia can power project, but without Russia ever taking it, it won't be able to develop into a state.

Hope that helps. I would love it if you use some of these ideas, because I think they're ultra-cool :D
 
First of all, Hravskiwi; your ideas are amazing! Really!

What if you had a POD with prison camps made in what would later become Beringia, and with the Russian Civil War the prisoners, perhaps with some Marxist or Populist political prisoners, overpower the guards, declaring an independent state? If there's a few fishing towns or whatever, they can commandeer boats for their "navy" and for transport over the Straits. Yes, it wouldn't properly function as a state, but it would be very interesting. Or you could possibly have sailors from a battleship in a similar situation to the Potemkin going to Beringia and helping with the creation of the state. It wouldn't be a very strong administration, and likely wouldn't last too long without some strange diplomatic reason for being propped up by someone else, but it would be very, very cool. If it stayed around a few generations, you could even have a caste system with the Russian prisoners and servicemen on top, along with their children, mostly the result of intermarriages with the local Yupik women, and the purer Yupiks on the bottom. Could result in ethnic issues in a supposedly Communist state.
Extra cool if Beringia is administered from the permanently docked (lack of fuel and probably maintenance) ship.

Yeah, cool idea! I'll perhaps indeed use parts of this 'timeline'.

Alternatively, you could have the Russians not ignore the gold in favour of fur trading, and have an earlier gold rush. The problem is this would likely involve an influx of American settlers. Perhaps have a situation with a Russian/Yupik Beringia, and an American Alaska, kinda like how Texas broke off from Mexico?

Well, this idea is possibly even better!!!

For an independent Kodiak Island, perhaps a small group of religious zealots, or some sort of cult, make their way to Kodiak Island as self-imposed isolation? They preserve their autonomy by giving the Russian govt. furs as a form of tribute (heavily regulated of course to keep out outside influence) and in the anarchy of the RCW, get de facto independence?

For Kodiak I'll certainly use your idea - it's just perfectly awesome! I'll perhaps alter it a little bit... Maybe Kodiak island will become a de jure and de facto independent state, but still influenced by independent Alaska, so de facto also a bit 'Alaskan'.

About Kamchatka, I'm sure others could come up with better ideas than me. The problem with Kamchatka is that it's connected to Russia by land, where Russia can power project, but without Russia ever taking it, it won't be able to develop into a state.
That's indeed a problem, but it's only a problem if Russia is a big country that reaches to Siberia... but... in my alternate history world I think I won't make a 'Russia' at all. We'll have Siberia, Novgorod, Ural Republic, Tatarstan, Tsardom of Muscovy, Republic of Smolensk, State of Komi, and many Caucasus states... So, then the problem isn't really there anymore.

Hope that helps. I would love it if you use some of these ideas, because I think they're ultra-cool :D
Yes, I'll use many ideas and they're indeed cool! ;)
 
Thanks! Nice to know your ideas are appreciated! :D although, if you have such a balkanised Russia, it's unlikely to have the RCW etc... impossible infact. Unless that balkanisation is after the RCW, in which case they'll likely be de facto independent warlords, such as in China, not de jure. And I don't see Kamchatka becoming an independent state without Russia having control sometime before. Kamchatka was inhabited by a bunch of native peoples, who outnumbered the ethnic Russians by the time of the RCW, and even later. If they never had contact with Russia, they won't just spontaneously create a European-style nation state.

Also, with Russia, try to make any Balkanisation semi-realistic. Due to horizontal bands of terrain (taiga, steppe etc) and the river systems, West to East expansion is impossible to prevent. The Urals are the only thing slowing Russian expansion into Siberia, and even then... I wouldn't have a problem with, say, a Cossack federation in the Eastern Ukraine and the Rostov-Don area. The Caucasus states are definitely plausible. May I suggest a pan-Vainakh state? But a Republic of Smolensk will almost certainly be absorbed by Muscovy, or possibly Novgorod. And what happens to Poland, Belarus, Finland and Central Asia?
 
Thanks! Nice to know your ideas are appreciated! :D although, if you have such a balkanised Russia, it's unlikely to have the RCW etc... impossible infact. Unless that balkanisation is after the RCW, in which case they'll likely be de facto independent warlords, such as in China, not de jure. And I don't see Kamchatka becoming an independent state without Russia having control sometime before. Kamchatka was inhabited by a bunch of native peoples, who outnumbered the ethnic Russians by the time of the RCW, and even later. If they never had contact with Russia, they won't just spontaneously create a European-style nation state.

Also, with Russia, try to make any Balkanisation semi-realistic. Due to horizontal bands of terrain (taiga, steppe etc) and the river systems, West to East expansion is impossible to prevent. The Urals are the only thing slowing Russian expansion into Siberia, and even then... I wouldn't have a problem with, say, a Cossack federation in the Eastern Ukraine and the Rostov-Don area. The Caucasus states are definitely plausible. May I suggest a pan-Vainakh state? But a Republic of Smolensk will almost certainly be absorbed by Muscovy, or possibly Novgorod. And what happens to Poland, Belarus, Finland and Central Asia?

Well, those aren't just a few easy questions... just let me think...

Before I start... what's RCW?
I'm sorry, but my knowledge of Internet slang vocabulary is rather limited, in fact I don't know much more than PoD, BTW, AFAIK, and that's almost it I guess...
 
No problem :p it's shorthand here for "Russian Civil War".

Well, I was already thinking about something similar... but anyway thanks...
Don't leave the thread, I'll now be going to answer all questions! :)

PS Are you from Croatia? Or was it just a funny wordplay with Hrvatski and Kiwi?
 
if you have such a balkanised Russia, it's unlikely to have the RCW etc... impossible infact.
And what about a civil war that takes place between a few, or most, of those states...?

Unless that balkanisation is after the RCW, in which case they'll likely be de facto independent warlords, such as in China, not de jure. And I don't see Kamchatka becoming an independent state without Russia having control sometime before. Kamchatka was inhabited by a bunch of native peoples, who outnumbered the ethnic Russians by the time of the RCW, and even later. If they never had contact with Russia, they won't just spontaneously create a European-style nation state.
Firstly, a Russian Civil War isn't really possible, because my novel takes place around 1800. What ís possible, is a sort of different war as described above, before let's say 1750.
Additionally, Kamchatka doesn't have to become wealthy or European-style... But, true, it's difficult to come up with a plausible timeline idea that makes Kamchatka a strong state that won't be swallowed up by another powerful state that does have resources and fertile land...

Also, with Russia, try to make any Balkanisation semi-realistic.
Of course, I'll always try to make everything as realistic as possible, but when my ideas are just amazing, but not plausible enough, then I mostly succumb to my fantasy... :p

Due to horizontal bands of terrain (taiga, steppe etc) and the river systems, West to East expansion is impossible to prevent. The Urals are the only thing slowing Russian expansion into Siberia, and even then...
That's indeed true... good that you noted that... But, what if there is a strong, united Ural state in the south of the Ural and the very northern part being a Komi state...? Wouldn't that slow down the expansion of the wealthier states in the west, because in my novel, the Industrial Revolution and everything around that is also later and slower, so that would perhaps also alter the situation.

I wouldn't have a problem with, say, a Cossack federation in the Eastern Ukraine and the Rostov-Don area.
Yeah... I hadn't thought about the Cossacks...
I'll give them a state too :p.

The Caucasus states are definitely plausible.
Well, then I in fact don't have to say anything about that, and it actually reassures me, because I really like to make states like Ingushetia, Dagestan, Abchazia, Chechenya etc. etc. - it would really have been a pity if that'd be implausible too. (I may have written the names of these states incorrecly, but I assume you can understand why :rolleyes:)

May I suggest a pan-Vainakh state?
A what??? ... Well, that's why we have wikipedia.org, I'll look it up...
- a few minutes later -
Well, wikipedia.org is a bit vague today, but I do get that it's a Caucasus state. However, I wouldn't like to have a united Caucasus state, if that's what it is.

But a Republic of Smolensk will almost certainly be absorbed by Muscovy, or possibly Novgorod.
No ... :( please, don't say that :( No, I'm kidding :p , you might well be right. What could make Smolensk stronger, though, to prevent this? Any ideas? Maybe it gets a protected, influenced state of Muscovy, or it's discovered earlier that resin could be produced of the pine trees in the area and thus it gets a very industrialised trade city (this is no fantasy, see here).[/QUOTE]


And what happens to Poland, ...
Poland is always difficult (I went there last summer, by the way)...
Probably I'll give it a shape similar to this (the Second Polish Republic). But then without the areas called the Polish Corridor... I would make an independent German state called Pomerania, as well as Prussia and Brandenburg, which also take some areas from Poland.

Belarus, ...
Well, roughly the same as present-day Belarus. Possibly like this.

Finland ...
Finland 'proper' will be independent, and rich and wealthy.
Karelia will be an independent state with some Finnish influence (and comprising present-day Finnish as well as Russian areas).
Sami (or the Lapland Republic or something like that) will be a Finnish puppet state, for more information, go to the Sápmi state thread, where I posted a lot!

and Central Asia?
That's one of the most difficult questions you could ask. Go to a thread I currently started about a possible Turkestan state and find more information in the last post there (don't confuse it with 'The Last Post', the World War I memorial thing which is every day in the Belgian city of Ypres, where I went a few weeks ago on holiday - impressing war sites and museums, I must say).
I personally would like many separate states in Central Asia! But I'm afraid that isn't that plausible...

Here ya go - I hope I've informed you a bit... but if there're any more questions, suggestions, proposals, remarks or comments, go ahead!
 
Just did a quick internet search, and Belarus was only fully under Russian control OTL in 1795. In your TL, has there ever been a Russia, or not? Because it would be far easier for you to just have a Russia that collapsed.

Would your Ural Republic be a state of Uralic native peoples, or by ethnic Russians who have established their own state there?

Although I've only had a cursory glance at Komi history, it seems plausible to have a state there, if Russia is disunited. Only in 1860 was the Great Perm 'too Russian for reversal'.

The Cossacks have to be there. They just have to. Although it'll be interesting to see how you have it turn out, because it's very complex, and heavily dependent on the context of your backstory.

Not having a united Vainakh state isn't that big a deal. Nationalism hasn't become very strong at this time OTL, and may be butterflied away for many years, again dependent on your PoD. I imagine being separated, isolated settlements in mountainous valleys would only have small "states" which are more like independent towns or tribes. I wouldn't make them states like Ingushetia, Chechnya etc. though, thats not realistic in this time period.

I'm very tired at the moment (its 3:00 am here) and I'll think more about how to make Smolensk stronger tomorrow. Maybe a particularly good leader? Or some dynastic tie with Moscow? Just need a reason to make Smolensk more important than Moscow.

Why is Karelia not part of Finland? And the Sami should probably be an autonomous part of Finland, not an independent state.

With Central Asia, you should keep it a place of hordes or nomads, perhaps with a few city states. I'll think more about it tomorrow (well, this afternoon :p)
 
Just did a quick internet search, and Belarus was only fully under Russian control OTL in 1795. In your TL, has there ever been a Russia, or not?
No, I don't think so.

Would your Ural Republic be a state of Uralic native peoples, or by ethnic Russians who have established their own state there?
First option.

Although I've only had a cursory glance at Komi history, it seems plausible to have a state there, if Russia is disunited. Only in 1860 was the Great Perm 'too Russian for reversal'.
Okay, good, thanks.

The Cossacks have to be there. They just have to. Although it'll be interesting to see how you have it turn out, because it's very complex, and heavily dependent on the context of your backstory.
I'll certainly include them! ;)

Not having a united Vainakh state isn't that big a deal. Nationalism hasn't become very strong at this time OTL, and may be butterflied away for many years, again dependent on your PoD. I imagine being separated, isolated settlements in mountainous valleys would only have small "states" which are more like independent towns or tribes. I wouldn't make them states like Ingushetia, Chechnya etc. though, thats not realistic in this time period.
Oh, why? Because that'd be really a pity...

I'm very tired at the moment (its 3:00 am here)
Have a good night rest (it's 3:11 pm here)! :p

and I'll think more about how to make Smolensk stronger tomorrow. Maybe a particularly good leader? Or some dynastic tie with Moscow? Just need a reason to make Smolensk more important than Moscow.
Thanks!

Why is Karelia not part of Finland?
Because of the following reasons:
- I have too much fantasy
- I like balkanisation
- They have a differnt culture, although it has mixed with the Finnish in history, so that the present-day difference has become almost neglectable.

And the Sami should probably be an autonomous part of Finland, not an independent state.
Same reasons! Why no independence? It still will be a puppet state, don't forget that.

With Central Asia, you should keep it a place of hordes or nomads, perhaps with a few city states. I'll think more about it tomorrow (well, this afternoon :p)
Yeah, that time difference is quite confusing, isn't it? But anyway, I really appreaciate your amazing contribution! :D Maybe have a look at other threads of mine as well, tomorrow, or this evening, for me.
 
Furthermore, I forgot something about Poland and Ukraine, two things in fact.
- Crimea has to be independent. Just because.
- Galicia will be independent too, probably.
 
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