Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey question

Most aircraft don't take well to being stuck outside for long periods though, so if you're going to operate the things (as opposed to just let them land occasionally) they you're definitely going to want a hanger that can take them.

If Riain's number is correct then my comment about a ship being able to operate Sea Kings being able to use the Osprey stands. It probably works better if the ships in question have large enough helicopter decks for it. As for what one would do for it, an Osprey would be pretty wicked sub-hunter if properly equipped, as its radius of operations is a heckuva lot bigger and it can respond to contacts faster because of its higher speed.
 
Has any testing been carried out on Ospreys on small decks located behind superstructures? I have read that the V-22 doesn't react well to asymmetric vortices due to their limited roll control authority.
 
I think it would only have taken a small butterfly for the MOD to look seriously at the Osprey as a replacement for the Sea King, Puma and Lynx for most applications.

The V-22 has 5.5x the engine power of a Lynx, which will often translate to a similar increase in fuel usage, and reduction in fly-time between replenishment. This makes little sense for the Royal Navy, especially for applications like sonar dipping.

For more demanding roles, the V-22 would compete with the EH101, which makes the V-22 untenable.
 
True, but if your ship has a big enough helicopter deck, you could use a V-22 from a destroyer-sized vessel, or any such ship with a large enough helicopter deck. Anything that can operate a Sea King could probably use an Osprey.

and more and more of the 'smaller' warships are sized around a flightdeck and hangar that will take a sea king or merlin sized aircraft not 'just' a Lynx or xH-60 size aircraft
 
The V-22 has 5.5x the engine power of a Lynx, which will often translate to a similar increase in fuel usage, and reduction in fly-time between replenishment. This makes little sense for the Royal Navy, especially for applications like sonar dipping.

For more demanding roles, the V-22 would compete with the EH101, which makes the V-22 untenable.

the MoD has a fioour/ five airframe structure plan for the future UK helicopter forces

AAC flies Apache and Lynx / Lynx wildcat

RN/ Commando Helicopter Force fly Merlins ( and provide organic SAR / MERT for expeditionary forces)

RAF fly Pumas and Chinooks (Chinooks fly MERT with ground support force on the same aircraft and air support from whatever is best suited / most easily tasked)

SAR fleet is none military owned even if the military provide some of the staffing
 

NothingNow

Banned
Most aircraft don't take well to being stuck outside for long periods though, so if you're going to operate the things (as opposed to just let them land occasionally) they you're definitely going to want a hanger that can take them.
They fold up to be pretty compact. A 21x7x7m space is plenty for storage, and if you can unfold it on the deck for some maintenance, that makes things much easier.

If Riain's number is correct then my comment about a ship being able to operate Sea Kings being able to use the Osprey stands. It probably works better if the ships in question have large enough helicopter decks for it. As for what one would do for it, an Osprey would be pretty wicked sub-hunter if properly equipped, as its radius of operations is a heckuva lot bigger and it can respond to contacts faster because of its higher speed.
Agreed. As a replacement for the S-3 it would've been wonderful, being able both to use a dipping sonar and sonobouys, although fitting it with torpedos could get pretty interesting. It'd probably have a very different fuselage from the standard MV-22, with different landing gear.

It looks pretty promising as a COD aircraft, replacing or supplementing the C-2 and US-3, trading off range for versatility and payload.

Has any testing been carried out on Ospreys on small decks located behind superstructures? I have read that the V-22 doesn't react well to asymmetric vortices due to their limited roll control authority.
They've got some serious software to counter that problem though.
It can handle operations off ships like the San Antiono-class (two at a time no less,) and was considered as a replacement for the CH-46, (along with the MH-60S,) so I'd guess hangar space is more of a limitation than the size of the landing deck, unlike the usual Heavy Helicopters.
 
There was some talk of the RN using them to fulfill an AEW role for the new Queen Elizabeth class oversize-helicopter-carriers. This would be in a similar capacity to the converted Seaking helicopters they used on the Invincibles, but able to fly higher, faster and for longer.
Since the frankly bizarre decision to go back to the F35B instead of catapults, this may be about the best way for the RN to go, barring a shiny new drone solution.
 

NothingNow

Banned
There was some talk of the RN using them to fulfill an AEW role for the new Queen Elizabeth class oversize-helicopter-carriers. This would be in a similar capacity to the converted Seaking helicopters they used on the Invincibles, but able to fly higher, faster and for longer.
Since the frankly bizarre decision to go back to the F35B instead of catapults, this may be about the best way for the RN to go, barring a shiny new drone solution.

Yeah, but apparently the Powers that be didn't want catapults, and the MoD is somehow worse with money than the USDoD, and lacks good sense.
So of course, they decided when comparing STOBAR and CATOBAR designs for their carriers, to adopt the Cheaper Carrier, with the more expensive and operationally limited aircraft. Probably so Lockheed Martin didn't have to worry about the RN buying the Rafale or Super Hornet, or because HM government aren't a particularly bright bunch.

But a Osprey AEW&C does seem to be a good idea compared to the Merlin ASaC5. It wouldn't be as useful as an E-2C or E-2D, but AFAIK, those are CATOBAR only.
 
An Osprey could pull double duty as an onboard COD. It still pisses me off we could of had most of the Osprey's capabilites 45+ years ago with the Rotodyne. Sometimes I think the MOD officials in Britian were working for the Soviets
 

Sior

Banned
An Osprey could pull double duty as an onboard COD. It still pisses me off we could of had most of the Osprey's capabilites 45+ years ago with the Rotodyne. Sometimes I think the MOD officials in Britian were working for the Soviets

A lot in the Labour government were!!!!!
 
Personally I don't think the V22 would make a particularly good ASW bird, I doubt it would be as good as a conventional helo at sonar dipping operations in the hover. However it would eat a conventional helo for breakfast, lunch and dinner as an AEW bird with it's high speed, endurance and ceiling. Apparently the Sea King AEW has a radar range of less than 100 miles due to the nature of the beast, I wonder what a V22 could do.
 
An Osprey could pull double duty as an onboard COD.

Yes, and a Porsche Cayenne is probably also very good at pulling a caravan.
Doesn't mean you wouldn't be an utter idiot to use it for that. :D
Does the UK even have a requirement for a COD aircraft?

Any other power with a CATOBAR carrier is better and much cheaper off with a C-2 Greyhound or even an ancient C-1 (like the Brazilian Navy recently did). Unless you're the USN and want to throw copious amounts of money at it.

But a Osprey AEW&C does seem to be a good idea compared to the Merlin ASaC5. It wouldn't be as useful as an E-2C or E-2D, but AFAIK, those are CATOBAR only.

From the performance side it seems a good idea at first.
The V-22 does have better performance in many area's which would make it a better AEW aircraft then the Merlin. However, the difference is probably not big enough to warrant the cost, considering that the V-22 doesn't have a pressure cabin, limiting it to the same altitude a Merlin would operate.

From the cost side it's a very bad idea.

The V-22's better performance is probably not worth the additional (substantial) cost to procure them as the UK and definitely not worth the additional cost to operate another type of aircraft. That's after all one of the reasons why the Harrier was ditched.

Secondly - from a financial / short term side - why would you buy V-22's at 70 mln USD a piece (solely procurement cost) when you have spare Merlin's lying around?
Even with the spare Merlin's, the UK isn't make much haste with the replacement of the Sea King AEW, even though those will be out of service in a few years. Possibly there's yet another capability holiday coming there...
 
An Osprey could pull double duty as an onboard COD. It still pisses me off we could of had most of the Osprey's capabilites 45+ years ago with the Rotodyne. Sometimes I think the MOD officials in Britian were working for the Soviets
I think the Rotodyne and the XC-142 were much larger aircraft than the V-22. Like the H-53 is larger than the H-3/Sea King. Both were ahead of their time
 

Sior

Banned
I think the Rotodyne and the XC-142 were much larger aircraft than the V-22. Like the H-53 is larger than the H-3/Sea King. Both were ahead of their time

2650_l.jpg


Scale models to give size.
 

Hyperion

Banned
The Osprey is too complicated and prone to mechanical failure and/or pilot error! The Fairey Rotodyne should have been completed. The U.S. Army was interested in buying 200 of the Type Y Rotodyne to be manufactured by Fairey's U.S. licensee, Kaman Helicopters in Bloomfield, Connecticut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Rotodyne

Accidents happen with every aircraft. Even F-22s, Super Hornets, F-16s, and F-3 Tornadoes have crashed before. Even the B-2 has lost one aircraft to a crash.

As for pilot error, again, that happens with any aircraft, even ones that have flown forever. Google the Fairchild Air Force Base B-52 crash, a perfect example of pilot error, not to mention a series of errors throughout the chain of command.
 

burmafrd

Banned
Those critics of the V-22 should remember all the fun and games early helicopters went through; or the harrier.

When you are flying something new you are going to have problems.
 
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