Belgium succesfull in annexation plans at Versailles 1919

[Parma]

Contrary to OTL the Belgian envoy at the Versailles peace negotiations is succesfull and supported by France in their annexation plans.
Annexation plans which were predominatly supported by the French speaking Beglians and fiercly opposed by the Flemsih part.
The Netherlands sheltered 1 milion Belgian refugees since the start of the Great War on a population of just over 5 milion.
The sheltering of the former Kaiser Wilhelm in the Netherlands, was a solist action of Queen Wilhelmina not a government supported action.
The plans were as showed at the map and all was realised except the teritory North of the river Scheldt.
Would the Nettherlans go to war over this or would it be compensated at the expense of Germany?
A compensation which take in consideration the balance between Catholics and Calvinist population in the Netherlands

 

[Sport25ing]

There's also a proposal to annex Luxembourg, don't forget that

 

[Parma]

There's also a proposal to annex Luxembourg, don't forget that

You are correct, let asume it wi be part of Belgium too

 

[Lalli]

If Netherlands is enforced to give these regions without any compensation, Hitler will get willingful ally against Belgium 20 years later.

 

[Count of Crisco]

If Netherlands is enforced to give these regions without any compensation, Hitler will get willingful ally against Belgium 20 years later.

I think the official position of the Netherlands would still be neutrality, the Netherlands realized that they were not a great power in Europe and any involvement in an alliance would mean their colonies in the indies would be hideously vulnerable. But I could see the Netherlands interwar investing more in its military, primarily army and air force, so that should the situation arise where they can go to war with Belgium over the lost territories without British or French interference they would have the forces available to take them.

The offshoot of this is a Netherlands with a larger and better prepared military, say 250,000 men, 100-200 tanks, modern artillery, modern communications, and AA, as well as a more numerous and better equipped air force, would be better able to resist the German invasion in 1940. I am not saying perfectly prepared, or even that they would be able to stop the Wehrmacht. But A larger Dutch army and air force means the Germans take much heavier losses and the fighting drags on for longer, meaning that more German troops are needed to take the country. Possibly enough that armies operating in France may in turn take long enough to get going that the French high command gets their collective heads out of their collective asses and comes up with an actual plan and strategy.

 

[Parma]

If Netherlands is enforced to give these regions without any compensation, Hitler will get willingful ally against Belgium 20 years later.

Sorry I think you missed a lot of steps.
Please I am looking forward to input to the direct time of the annexation and the following decade.
There is still more than a decade to go if there will be a rise to power by Hilter and the rise of the Nazi's was never written in stone.

 

[Parma]

I think the official position of the Netherlands would still be neutrality, the Netherlands realized that they were not a great power in Europe and any involvement in an alliance would mean their colonies in the indies would be hideously vulnerable. But I could see the Netherlands interwar investing more in its military, primarily army and air force, so that should the situation arise where they can go to war with Belgium over the lost territories without British or French interference they would have the forces available to take them.

The offshoot of this is a Netherlands with a larger and better prepared military, say 250,000 men, 100-200 tanks, modern artillery, modern communications, and AA, as well as a more numerous and better equipped air force, would be better able to resist the German invasion in 1940. I am not saying perfectly prepared, or even that they would be able to stop the Wehrmacht. But A larger Dutch army and air force means the Germans take much heavier losses and the fighting drags on for longer, meaning that more German troops are needed to take the country. Possibly enough that armies operating in France may in turn take long enough to get going that the French high command gets their collective heads out of their collective asses and comes up with an actual plan and strategy.

Interesting thoughts. The latter is a bit too much in the future and assuming history will goes as we know it.

 

[Chris Triangle]

I'm confused, is this something that actually was proposed because I've never heard of it. On what grounds was this? As punishment for giving Wilhelm asylum? Some perceived Dutch collaboration with Germany? For Belgian border security? This blatantly violates the territorial sovereignty of a neutral nation.

 

[boredviewer1234]

Interesting thoughts. The latter is a bit too much in the future and assuming history will goes as we know it.

I think you might see a ironic increase of France trying to swallow/integrate Belgium in response given Belgium is now both largely French speaking and needs France on their side more than ever and a precedent is set.

For example the Congo given their no threat of WW2, you might see French try and take as payment for that service, or some provinces added the Central Africa.

 

[Lalli]

I think the official position of the Netherlands would still be neutrality, the Netherlands realized that they were not a great power in Europe and any involvement in an alliance would mean their colonies in the indies would be hideously vulnerable. But I could see the Netherlands interwar investing more in its military, primarily army and air force, so that should the situation arise where they can go to war with Belgium over the lost territories without British or French interference they would have the forces available to take them.

The offshoot of this is a Netherlands with a larger and better prepared military, say 250,000 men, 100-200 tanks, modern artillery, modern communications, and AA, as well as a more numerous and better equipped air force, would be better able to resist the German invasion in 1940. I am not saying perfectly prepared, or even that they would be able to stop the Wehrmacht. But A larger Dutch army and air force means the Germans take much heavier losses and the fighting drags on for longer, meaning that more German troops are needed to take the country. Possibly enough that armies operating in France may in turn take long enough to get going that the French high command gets their collective heads out of their collective asses and comes up with an actual plan and strategy.

You might be right. But it depends if nazis still rise inG ermany and what happens on Dutch politics. If fascists take power like in Germany and Italy Netherlands might feel quiet close of Germany. Even if not ourgith ally Netherlands might manage to keep itself neutral. I don't think that Germany is going invade Netherlands on this scenario if then they don't suspect that Brits are going to do that.

 

[Parma]

I'm confused, is this something that actually was proposed because I've never heard of it. On what grounds was this? As punishment for giving Wilhelm asylum? Some perceived Dutch collaboration with Germany? For Belgian border security? This blatantly violates the territorial sovereignty of a neutral nation.

This is really proposed. The "press" campaing already started during the war by some members of the Belgian gouvernment. It was however a largly French speaking affair. The Flemish/Dutch speaking part and the Flemish news papers were nearly unanimusly against it.
The reason was the acusation that Dutch army let the German army pass in 1914 in Limbourg and with Zeeuw -Vlaanderen the Dutch controled the access to Antwerp.
Limbourg contained also several coal mines.

 

[Parma]

Nice responses how ever do not skip too fast to 1940. There still two decades before that.

 

[Chris Triangle]

This is really proposed. The "press" campaing already started during the war by some members of the Belgian gouvernment. It was however a largly French speaking affair. The Flemish/Dutch speaking part and the Flemish news papers were nearly unanimusly against it.
The reason was that the Dutch army let the German army pass in 1914 in Limbourg and with Zeeuw -Vlaanderen the Dutch controled the access to Antwerp.
Limbourg contained also several coal mines.

Now that's just greedy.

 

[HJ Tulp]

This is really proposed. The "press" campaing already started during the war by some members of the Belgian gouvernment. It was however a largly French speaking affair. The Flemish/Dutch speaking part and the Flemish news papers were nearly unanimusly against it.
The reason was that the Dutch army let the German army pass in 1914 in Limbourg and with Zeeuw -Vlaanderen the Dutch controled the access to Antwerp.
Limbourg contained also several coal mines.

Any source? I would swear that the German army was only allowed to pass while in retreat in 1918.

 

[H.Flashman(VC)]

Any source? I would swear that the German army was only allowed to pass while in retreat in 1918.

https://www.wereldoorlog1418.nl/weggetje/index.html

Contrary to OTL the Belgian envoy at the Versailles peace negotiations is succesfull and supported by France in their annexation plans.

Is that enough? Great Britain and the US might still be opposed or at least demand a plebiscite.

Would the Nettherlans go to war over this

Not if the big four support it.

 

[TRH]

Is that enough? Great Britain and the US might still be opposed or at least demand a plebiscite.

I don't know if the US' objections count for much when Wilson couldn't even get the Senate to ratify the treaty IOTL anyways. So the only question is how strenuously Lloyd-George would oppose this, if he even does.

 

[Nagisaki]

Is that enough? Great Britain and the US might still be opposed or at least demand a plebiscite.

looks at Eupen-Malmedy

Like Belgium would actually care.

 

[H.Flashman(VC)]

I don't know if the US' objections count for much when Wilson couldn't even get the Senate to ratify the treaty IOTL anyways. So the only question is how strenuously Lloyd-George would oppose this, if he even does.

That happened way after the negotiations. Wilson is not in a weak negotiation position at that point of time.

looks at Eupen-Malmedy

Like Belgium would actually care.

That's different. The Netherlands were neutral and did it's best to behave like a neutral country. They did bend during the war for the demands the allies made in regards to trading several times.

 

[Chris Triangle]

I don't know if the US' objections count for much when Wilson couldn't even get the Senate to ratify the treaty IOTL anyways. So the only question is how strenuously Lloyd-George would oppose this, if he even does.

It depends on how concerned Britain is about relations with the Netherlands because agreeing to this will tank them. And this is coming off the heels of the trouble with the blockade. I think the main worry would be that this action could make the Dutch potentially more sympathetic to Germany in the future and that the country is right on the North Sea. You could argue what would happen if the Dutch let the Germans March through their country the next time there was a war. Now of course the Dutch would probably not ever actually ally with Germany over this issue but they could still do their best give the allies the impression that throwing the Netherlands under the bus could make containing Germany harder in the future.

If however, if Belgium took the initiative and simply seized the desired territories by force, I don't think the allies would really protest too loudly. This is probably how Belgium would get these territories if it wanted them. Unlike Belgium, nobody was ever obligated to guarantee Dutch neutrality.

 

[Parma]

Any source? I would swear that the German army was only allowed to pass while in retreat in 1918.

Sorry, it was an accusation that the Dutch army let the Germans pas through Limbourg in 1914, which was false. In 1918 however German troops did pas Limbourgh with arms an loot under guidance of the Duth army