Belgium, Oh Belgium - Who Shall Claim Thee, Belgium?

Who Should Be the King?

  • Someone else I foolishly forgot to put (post who and why below!)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Prosper Louis, The Duke of Arenberg (Belgian noble)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alfred, The Duke of Croy (Belgian noble)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Younger son of Willem III of the Netherlands

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    158
  • Poll closed .
If you wonder why I call him a big brute, his wikipedia says he was six foot five and his character says the rest.
Oh, I know :( I looked him up and thought it was the description of a movie villain. If he and Lotte make it to two boys, however, and the Netherlands keep Belgium, maybe their second son can rule independent Belgium
 
Oh, I know :( I looked him up and thought it was the description of a movie villain. If he and Lotte make it to two boys, however, and the Netherlands keep Belgium, maybe their second son can rule independent Belgium
Willem is the type to commit marital rape. If he wants more children, there will be more children.

Besides I don't think staunchly conservative Willem will let Belgium go.
 
Oh, I know :( I looked him up and thought it was the description of a movie villain. If he and Lotte make it to two boys, however, and the Netherlands keep Belgium, maybe their second son can rule independent Belgium

William II was popular in Belgium, so maybe if the plan is to split Belgium with William III's sons he takes the younger one (let's call him Leopold) under his wing. Although the other option is that the split happens among William II's sons, although given Alexander was apparently clueless around women (whether it was a symptom of the cause of his remaining single is unknown) and Henry remained childless despite 2 marriages you might still end up with William & Lotte's son as heir.
 
Willem is the type to commit marital rape. If he wants more children, there will be more children.

Besides I don't think staunchly conservative Willem will let Belgium go.
Sorry for the double post but one potential solution is to kill off Anna Pavlovna sooner. Throughout his life, William constantly toyed with abdication wanting to pass the throne to his brother or eldest son. If the two boys, let's call them William and Leopold, are born in a rather short succession, then without his mother convincing him to tough it out you might see William abdicate and either divorce Lotte or at best be married in name only while he, literally, screws around in France and has Lotte and his eldest surviving brother (either Alexander or Henry) act as regent. Of course in one of his moods he might decide he actually does want to be king ala Carol II of Romania, but hopefully, the Dutch can hold him off better than the Romanians did IOTL.
 
Willem is the type to commit marital rape. If he wants more children, there will be more children.

Besides I don't think staunchly conservative Willem will let Belgium go.

Yeah, that's a very true point. He gives off a real "must repopulate the world with my spawn" vibe - he had a ridiculous amount of bastards OTL. And in this timeline. And in every timeline. There's no saving Billy.

Sorry for the double post but one potential solution is to kill off Anna Pavlovna sooner. Throughout his life, William constantly toyed with abdication wanting to pass the throne to his brother or eldest son. If the two boys, let's call them William and Leopold, are born in a rather short succession, then without his mother convincing him to tough it out you might see William abdicate and either divorce Lotte or at best be married in name only while he, literally, screws around in France and has Lotte and his eldest surviving brother (either Alexander or Henry) act as regent. Of course in one of his moods he might decide he actually does want to be king ala Carol II of Romania, but hopefully, the Dutch can hold him off better than the Romanians did IOTL.

I think he's a lot like Carol II amd Edward VIII in the whole "I wanna have the title and status and power of king without fulfilling any of the basic requirements" attitude. I don't think he would abdicate that power away, but he would definitely be down to have Charlotte and Alexander do all the real work while he's off playing in the brothels. Maybe that's how they get Belgium to little Leopold - Willem is bored with responsibility and literally just hands it off one day, to Alexander (who is weird but at least decent and a functional adult) or straight to Lil Leo.
 
Even though I've been totally slacking on it, I am still working on my OTL, The Last Hanover, which explores the life and reign of Charlotte of Wales had she survived her childbirth in November 1817.

Obviously with Charlotte living, Leopold of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld -Leopold I of Belgium- is not going to take that throne. It's been making me crazy trying to figure out who will take the throne, and what it will do to Europe. Some things that for sure are going down are: Albert (OTL husband of Victoria) marries a Russian Grand Duchess and gets Greece after Otto I, and Louis Philippe d'Orléans does not take the throne of France and rules as co-regent with the dowager Duchesse de Berry, who does not remarry and retains custody of her son, who becomes the liberal King Henri V of the French.

Our OTL options are:
Wild Card Options
For whatever reasons, these guys weren't offered the throne of Belgium when it came up for grabs: since it's my timeline and my rules, I thought I would give them a shot this time around.
BONUS CHALLENGE: Find me someone to marry Victoria of Kent (OTL Queen Victoria, who's been pushed pretty far down the line of succession in this timeline), either from these candidates or in general!
Prince Louis of Orleans. Allowing a major powers Monarchs son to rule gives too much potential power in the area to France. (Opposed possibly by both Prussia and Britain)

Auguste de Beauharnais and Maximilien de Beauharnais,
too close to Bonapartism for most of the Concert of Europe, and Bourbon-Orleanist France. (Daughters were okay to marry off, but men not to reign). Allowing a king of Belgium too close to Napoleon right next to France. No way.

Archduke Karl,
see Prince Louis. Possible Austrian return to the former Austrian Netherlands. France, Prussia and possibly Britain may not like it.

Napoléon François Charles Joseph Bonaparte, The Duke of Reichstadt (aka Napoléon II):
Seriously! He is Napoleon's son and heir! Being King of a bordering country of France! No one including Grandpa Francis in Austria would allow it. He may have been grandpa's favorite grandson, but Francis I played emperor first, father, grandpa second. He likely promised at the Congress of Vienna to keep Napoleons son under "wraps" and "guard' to prevent him from ever taking over France.

Prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha-Koháry.
Probably the best choice among the above. Even though Leopold was was the widowed son-in-law of George IV, and created a British Royal Prince, he was acceptable having fought against Napoleon for Russia, and he was a "German", so his brother Ferdinand would have fit the needs and concerns of the Allies. As for Ferdinand's marriage, Belgium was a minor kingdom comparatively, and perhaps they would have made concessions to allow him to reign with his wife alongside of him. After all, many of the de Beauharnais women seemed suitable to be consorts in post-Napoleonic Europe. Ferdinand's wife seems as qualified dynastically if not more than Napoleon's step-family who inherited their ranks by virtue of Napoleon's military conquests.

And as for the bonus challenge: Victoria of Kent. It would depend on the importance Queen Charlotte and her Prince Consort Leopold, the uncle of Victoria, and the British government place on a woman now further down the line of succession. Perhaps she marries Albert after all, or his older brother Ernst, both nephews of Leopold as well, and becomes a Duchess Consort of Coburg, if married to Ernst. It would give Britain a presence in Germany after having lost Hanover to the Salic law that forbade Charlotte from inheriting the throne from her father there. Also, knowing the "dynastic" ambitions of Uncle Leopold, perhaps a political/dynastic marriage of alliance in Europe. The future Alexander II of Russia? They were about the same age. (What if her father, Edward, Duke of Kent lives long enough to inherit the throne of Hanover from his older brothers, George IV and William IV? Then her status changes from British Princess to Hanoverian Princess and the daughter of minor German King. Will she be seen as a marriage catch for being a daughter a German King, or as a British Princess, as no doubt her father could or would retain his title as a British Royal Duke.)
 
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Prince Louis of Orleans. Allowing a major powers Monarchs son to rule gives too much potential power in the area to France. (Opposed possibly by both Prussia and Britain)

Auguste de Beauharnais and Maximilien de Beauharnais,
too close to Bonapartism for most of the Concert of Europe, and Bourbon-Orleanist France. (Daughters were okay to marry off, but men not to reign). Allowing a king of Belgium too close to Napoleon right next to France. No way.

Archduke Karl,
see Prince Louis. Possible Austrian return to the former Austrian Netherlands. France, Prussia and possibly Britain may not like it.

Napoléon François Charles Joseph Bonaparte, The Duke of Reichstadt (aka Napoléon II):
Seriously! He is Napoleon's son and heir! Being King of a bordering country of France! No one including Grandpa Francis in Austria would allow it. He may have been grandpa's favorite grandson, but Francis I played emperor first, father, grandpa second. He likely promised at the Congress of Vienna to keep Napoleons son under "wraps" and "guard' to prevent him from ever taking over France.

Prince Ferdinand of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha-Koháry.
Probably the best choice among the above. Even though Leopold was was the widowed son-in-law of George IV, and created a British Royal Prince, he was acceptable having fought against Napoleon for Russia, and he was a "German", so his brother Ferdinand would have fit the needs and concerns of the Allies. As for Ferdinand's marriage, Belgium was a minor kingdom comparatively, and perhaps they would have made concessions to allow him to reign with his wife alongside of him. After all, many of the de Beauharnais women seemed suitable to be consorts in post-Napoleonic Europe. Ferdinand's wife seems as qualified dynastically if not more than Napoleon's step-family who inherited their ranks by virtue of Napoleon's military conquests.

And as for the bonus challenge: Victoria of Kent. It would depend on the importance Queen Charlotte and her Prince Consort Leopold, the uncle of Victoria, and the British government place on a woman now further down the line of succession. Perhaps she marries Albert after all, or his older brother Ernst, both nephews of Leopold as well, and becomes a Duchess Consort of Coburg, if married to Ernst. It would give Britain a presence in Germany after having lost Hanover to the Salic law that forbade Charlotte from inheriting the throne from her father there. Also, knowing the "dynastic" ambitions of Uncle Leopold, perhaps a political/dynastic marriage of alliance in Europe. The future Alexander II of Russia? They were about the same age. (What if her father, Edward, Duke of Kent lives long enough to inherit the throne of Hanover from his older brothers, George IV and William IV? Then her status changes from British Princess to Hanoverian Princess and the daughter of minor German King. Will she be seen as a marriage catch for being a daughter a German King, or as a British Princess, as no doubt her father could or would retain his title as a British Royal Duke.)

Thank you for the wonderful reply! The only issue I can see with Ferdinand is his being the brother of the consort of the Queen of Great Britain, etc - the other powers might see that as the British trying to get a new 'colony'. Perhaps his children could marry into the families of the other candidates: Ferdinand (his heir) to Maria Theresa or Maria Karolina of Teschen, August to the French or other Catholic power, etc.

KEEP VOTING, KEEP POSTING! I want to hear all the ideas! Thank you!
 
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Thank you for the wonderful reply! The only issue I can see with Ferdinand is his being the brother of the consort of the Queen of Great Britain, etc - the other powers might see that as the British trying to get a new 'colony'. Perhaps his children could marry into the candidates of the other children: Ferdinand (his heir) to Maria Theresa or Maria Karolina of Teschen, August to the French or other Catholic power, etc.

KEEP VOTING, KEEP POSTING! I want to hear all the ideas! Thank you!
I considered before my reply the fact that Leopold would be the Prince Consort of Britain. My reasoning was that despite this, Ferdinand would be acceptable, like Leopold was in OTL. By 1830, Leopold was a "British Prince" made so by his father in law George IV. By this time, he was also the uncle of Princess Victoria of Kent, who was a likely successor to William IV. Being German, made him acceptable to Prussia, having fought against Napoleon in the Russian Army, made him also acceptable to Bourbon France as well as Austria and Russia.

Ferdinand's marriage also may make him less a threat to the powers of Europe, at least at his crowning because other than his relation to the throne of Britain, he has no other "dynastic" ties. Yes, perhaps once he is on the throne, from that point on more attention would be made on who his heir's married.
 
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Why does people like to have Napoleon II become King of Belgium when he already has a ready-made claim for the French throne?

I don't think it is too realistic for him to be king, but I do think it would be fun, for this very reason!
 
I'm curious about the Dutch reconquest idea. What is France doing when that happens? Does France get bribed with something to stay out of the conflict, or does this flame up into a general European war and the French are on the losing side?
 
I don't think it is too realistic for him to be king, but I do think it would be fun, for this very reason!

I agree! I think people are voting for him because he's a nice guy who got a rotten lot in life and deserves a chance. He'd be a good ruler, and maybe the Great Powers could be brought around to it. They could set up a safety net plan where bad behavior (a la trying to invade every other country in Europe) gets his crown revoked or something like that. It'd be hard to swing but I think there is a real shot for François I of Belgium (he'd have to drop Napoléon quick, fast, and in a hurry)
 
I'm curious about the Dutch reconquest idea. What is France doing when that happens? Does France get bribed with something to stay out of the conflict, or does this flame up into a general European war and the French are on the losing side?

Hadn't thought about that - anyone who is pro-reconquest have any ideas?
 
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