Battleship Extraordinaire

As it has been pointed out in many threads before, both Japan's Yamamato-class battleships and the Germans' Bismarck-class had a lot of problems. For example, the Bismarck had lackluster armor plating.

WI Japan, Germany, or another member of the Axis managed to build a half-decent battleship or two or three during WWII? How much of a threat would such a fleet pose to the Allies--it'd assuredly face the same murky fate as the Bismarck or Yamamoto, but would be end up being more successful than either?

All in all, the main point of this is to figure out if the Axis had the time, wherewithal, and/or smarts to build a world class battleship, and what that ship would need to have to be a threat to the Allies.
 

MrP

Banned
Ah, you're confusing the Yamato class with Admiral Yamamoto, old man.

I'd imagine smaller IJN supers would be far more useful. They'd represent less of an investment/unit, for starters, and might even free up construction for some more carriers. I dunno that this'd have much impact of foreign relations, since, IIRC, the Japanese were rather effective at tricking everyone into believing the Yamatos had 16" guns and displaced less than they did. Rather a mad juxtaposition of "Fear of these ships will keep our enemies from declaring war" and "We can't let anyone know about these ships!" But there we are.

The IJN did have interwar plans to replace the Kongos and Fusos. Both designs were about 40k tons, 10 x 16in guns for the former, 9 for the latter, and 26 kt speeds. I'm not sure of the design date of the Fuso replacement, but acc. to Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945, the Kongo replacement was drawn up by Admiral Hiraga in '30. She's got some silly features, though. Not just underwater TTs, but also half her secondaries are casemated, not turreted. :confused:
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
The problem is actually two fold. The first is economic and practical.

The Germans were so far behind that they would never be able to catch up. The USN & RN were simply too far ahead. If it was an even race four or five Bismarcks, with escorts, could have been a major pain for the Allies, epecially in the Atlantic in mid-winter, when operating from a carrier TODAY (all 90,000 tons) is a bitch. Unfortunately, that would require a force that Hitler never even dreamed of building once the escorts are thrown into the mix

The Japanese, have two very different problems. They lack funding & infrastructure to support a major fleet and the Pacific is too big. The Germans had a single target, the SLOC to Great Britain, but the IJN had to deal with the Mandates, Wake, Hawaii, Australia, Singapore, Guam, the Philippines, etc.

The second problem is technology.

The battleship was past it's "sell by" date, at least as the primary weapon system of navies. All you need do is look at the fate of the two most powerful battleship classes ever built to see that. The Yamato & her sister died at the hands of aircraft from far off carriers; in the Yamato's case it was almost like the USN was killing a spider, they just swatted her like a bug. The Iowas, arguably the best gun warships ever made, spent their entire war escorting carriers, their biggest asset the massive number of 40mm and 5" AAA they could provide. Beyond that, they acted as floating artillery, a very important task, but hardly the glamor job in the fleet.

What would have happened if the Japanese had six, even eight or ten, Yamato/Super Yamato battlewagons in late 1944? A bunch of pilots would have gotten Navy Crosses for sinking them while they were still a full day's steaming from the carriers (and there would probably be a couple sub skippers with one as well). Time had marched right past the battleship.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Ah, you're confusing the Yamato class with Admiral Yamamoto, old man.

I'd imagine smaller IJN supers would be far more useful. They'd represent less of an investment/unit, for starters, and might even free up construction for some more carriers. I dunno that this'd have much impact of foreign relations, since, IIRC, the Japanese were rather effective at tricking everyone into believing the Yamatos had 16" guns and displaced less than they did. Rather a mad juxtaposition of "Fear of these ships will keep our enemies from declaring war" and "We can't let anyone know about these ships!" But there we are.

The IJN did have interwar plans to replace the Kongos and Fusos. Both designs were about 40k tons, 10 x 16in guns for the former, 9 for the latter, and 26 kt speeds. I'm not sure of the design date of the Fuso replacement, but acc. to Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945, the Kongo replacement was drawn up by Admiral Hiraga in '30. She's got some silly features, though. Not just underwater TTs, but also half her secondaries are casemated, not turreted. :confused:

Japanese warship design was either brilliant or bizarre, sometimes both on the same hull. Having torpedoes on their cruisers was brilliant, the Long Lance had the range to equal the cruiser's guns, making it a solid addition to the ship, building several cruisers with 32, or even 40 torpedo tubes, well, that's bizarre.

Sort of like having SOME armor on the Yamato's that was "the strongest ever tested" by the U.S. with other plates right next to it that would shatter when hit by a 12" (in a couple cases spall when hit by 8") shells, not as a design feature, but because your QC sucked. Most expensive thing your country ever built, and no one bother to QC the parts. Bizarre.
 
Top