Battle of Meung Goes other Way

After the siege of Orleans, the English only considered it a temporary setback. While they were forced off in disorder, they were able to retain most of their manpower and equipment. They still had control over 3/4 of the countryside around Orleans. A bridge was repaired that might allow them to take the city by surprise later, or they could re-invest later. At this time the Hundred Years War was a civil war and more French carried arms under the Plantagenet banner than the Plantagenets had English fighting for them (although the Orleans and Loire campaign as mostly fought by English) because from the assassination of John the Brave until the Loire campaign, Charles VII had discredited himself to not only his father, but nobles who had the honor of sitting in his court. The English immediate concern was regroup and securing the supply lines from a possible French offensive into the Loire.

In fact the French garrison after being relieved thought the same thing.

The French under Joan de Arc proceeded to do just that. They won three straight battles, compromising the English position operationally in this region and also giving other Frenchmen the idea who was the correct king.

Now, suppose the second of these three battles, I think fought on June 15 in Meung, went the other way. In OTL the English held the bridge, the walled town, and a nearby castle, but lost the bridge which made their movements south of the river impossible despite the fact that the French only used part of their available forces. Sulloflk was not present for the battle.

In TTL, they French scrape together all their mobile formations, in other words anyone not on garrison duty. They march on. The English try to meet the larger French formation in open battlefield, but they can't get their stakes in time. TTL Suffolk is present for the battle. In TTL like OTL, the longbowmen don't get to fire more than a volley and a melee ensures as the bowmen retreat behind their comrades with just enough time for the English knights to reenter formation against the French. There is a fight, and the English are beaten back and make a mostly orderly retreat. Meanwhile, a small group of Englishmen get to where the French dismounted from and stole some horses (just like how a few dozen French in Agincourt attacked the English baggage train and stole some stuff when they were in danger).

Oh, TTL Suffolk is an above average tactician and not a tactical moron like TTL (up to the point Richard III reflected he must have been a traitor to Phillip the Good)

Joan sees the English in retreat and orders her men to regroup before pursuit. However, her subordinates disobey orders. Despite this king earlier putting them under Joan's command, her subordinates remind her she was authorized to "conduct battles, not chose which ones to fight" (a paraphrasing of her actual duties given by Charles VII).

The English enter the walled city and some stay behind for street fighting as the French pour into a single gate. Suffolk orders a delaying action to be made while his splits his main force. 3/4 goes into the castle and the rest go into the countryside. The French pour into the city, hit the tavern, get drunk, loot, and kill 1/8 of the able bodied men (who wanted to protect their possessions). Note that enter city > drunk > pillage was something done by both sides in the HYW despite commanders' orders. I don't know why the French ever did so, but again it was done by both sides.

Before the French rearguard had entered the walled city, the main body came out to strike against the nearby castle (20 minutes away?) with ladders brought from the city. Yes, there were actually ladders high enough to scale the castle. They try to storm the castle.

Unfortunately for them they have several disadvantages. Storming a castle is usually going to take lots of casualties. Another is that the English regrouped while the French were wasting stamina in a drunken stupor in the city. A third is that while this is happening, the small detachment of English knights set aside prepare to smash the French in a single envelopment action.

An army out of formation usually will fall to any cavalry charge, and this is compounded by the English control of the castle in front of the French army mob. Lots of killed and taken prisoner. Joan arrives to see the massacre and organizes a rearguard action to allow some of the idiots who attacked without orders to regroup under her banner. The French remnant retreats, unable to hold the town with their survivors.

In the end over 3,000 Frenchmen were taken prisoner. When taking all kinds of casualties (captured and killed) the ratios favors the English 7 to 1. in addition TTL Meung was a limited engagement while here Charles VII and Sullfolk used all their mobile formations. The town contained most of the siege equipment, except some ladders the English had in their forts around the river at Meung and the nearby castle. The town is a source of income for the English that is now diminished and one of its gates had its locking mechanisms destroyed after the French retook the town. However, prisoners to ransom, yay!

Does Joan get credit for saving hundreds of French knights, or fired as a general for "losing" and "being a woman"? Yes, no one obeyed orders after the first engagement, but are the French nobles going to admit they disobeyed orders from a woman who turned out to be right?

What effect does this have on the nobles in Northern France? A lot of them took their lot in with Charles VI.

With the loss of siege equipment, how are the English going to try to continue their campaign? They don't have the craftsmen needed to remake them on site and a siege train from Paris sounds vulnerable to attack. Brining the craftsmen to Orleans means paying them extra to go out of their way.

Can Suffolk at least maintain Bedford's gains in France for 3 decades?
 
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