Battle of Jutland POD

The only POD is what is stated below, all other events from 1914 on are OTL.

The full might of the High Seas Fleet steamed out of Wilhelmshaven in May of 1916. Since it was a rare clear day, the people who reported to the British government didn't even have to be close to see the German fleet move out to open sea.

The British couldn't believe their luck, the Germans dared come out in force to challenge the Grand Fleet! The High Seas Fleet would be destroyed once and for all, no more hit and runs on the British Isles. Visions of Nelson's glory were bouncing around the minds of the British Admirals. Still Jellico had a nagging voice in the back of his head telling him the Germans weren't stupid, they knew their 16 Dreadnoughts had little chance against his 28. What were they thinking? He deemed the thought not important as the order went out for the Grand Fleet to make steam and head to the rendezvous point.

Picket lines of U-Boats were sent out days in advance of the High Seas Fleet departure to spot the Grand Fleet leaving their bases. The Grand Fleet was spotted and had their location, speed and heading radioed to awaiting German staff. All German units were told at what position to be for the coming battle.

The 2nd Cruiser squadron had located the main High Sees Fleet battle line early on the morning of May 31 and after a short exchange of rounds sailed back toward the Grand Fleet at full speed. Upon hearing of the imminent arrival of the High Seas Fleet, the Grand Fleet formed their battle line. Every person on board waited with great anticipation for the coming elimination of the High Seas Fleet, there could be no other outcome in their minds.

The High Seas Fleet had gone to full speed but they were not chasing the Cruisers, much to the chagrin of the Admiral aboard the HMS Minotaur. The Minotaur and other cruisers could not dare go back to re engage the Germans, he would just have to hope the Germans were having some mechanical problems that was slowing them down. Something that would help in their destruction. No German Admiral could avoid the potential destruction of 4 Armored Cruisers, unless they had another reason for being outside German waters. But what could it be? At this time the sole purpose of the High Seas Fleet was to destroy the Grand Fleet and the only way that was possible was a piece at a time.

Several hours later spotters on the last heavy in the Grand Fleet battle line were the first to spot what they thought was a single Zeppelin coming from astern straight at them. Light signals went up and down the battle line so soon all command officers came out to see the strange movement of a single Zeppelin. It was obvious the Germans now knew their location. They were also all wondering why that Zeppelin was gaining on them, usually once they spotted an enemy fleet, they would just sit off in the distance. Within seconds they realized something else, there was more than one Zeppelin. No one was worried just curious why 5 Zeppelins that appeared to be in a battle line were gaining on their battle line. In a few minutes the lead Zeppelin was directly over the middle of the battle line. A few seconds later all officers in the battle line saw what looked like a flare coming at them. The confused officers became concerned when they heard a whistle that sounded way too much like an incoming round. By then it was too late, the first guided AP shell impacted on its first Dreadnought.

Go back to the Fall of 1914 when an engineer at a Zeppelin plant had a "Newtonian" moment. He had just come out of a very long meeting describing the British blockade and what it was capable of doing to the German economy. All kind of ideas were bounced around to defeat or circumvent the blockade including building fleets of Zeppelin cargo ships to import goods. All ideas were decided to be too expensive or not worthy of any more consideration. He decided to go outside for a break. Sitting by a Maple tree lined pond he watched a winged seed from a Maple tree float down and impact a leaf in the pond. At the last second the leaf had moved sharply to the left due to waves in the pond, the winged leaf followed sharply left due to the breeze and landed right on top of the leaf. At that very second a Zeppelin flew overhead and a light bulb went off in the engineer's head. He had an idea that would end the immoral blockade done by the Royal Navy.

After 2 years of testing, the final version was a wire guided free falling 12" Armor Piercing naval shell. Wings with movable fins were added to the AP shell to allow it to be moved left/right and up/down. A flare was added on the backside to aide the person guiding the AP. The guiding wires consisted of 2 wires connecting the AP shell to the Zeppelin. Voltage variance on the left wire moved the shell left and right. Voltage variance on the right wire moved the shell up and down. The explosives in the shell were carefully shielded from voltage and the flares. The wires weighed 1 pound for every 820 feet, falling 5,000 feet, each reel of wire attached to the AP shell weighed 6 pounds, 10 pounds with the reel itself added in. A 12" AP shell weighs 864 pounds, 877 with the added wings and flare. Bringing the total weight for each guided round let loose on the Grand Fleet to 887 pounds. It took 4,500 feet for the AP shell to reach terminal velocity, thus the exact altitude needed was determined to be 5,000. Each Zeppelin was capable of carrying hundreds of guided munitions. It was computed to take approximately 18 seconds from time of release to impact. Once the attack began, all aspects were carried out with typical German efficiency. Using 2 bomb bays allowed the used bomb bay to be reloaded while the new bomb bay was being used to destroy enemy ships, alternating use of bomb bays. AP shells were dropped as soon as the previous AP shell impacted to maximize damage due to the limited time a faster Zeppelin could spend over the Grand Fleet battle line or even chasing down a lone heavy ship.

The lead Dreadnought was hit and within 20 seconds hit again in the engine room slowing it down immensely, forcing the remaining ships in the battle line to swerve hard to port or starboard, just as the German High Command had planned. The line of Zeppelins began their attack as they crossed over the Grand Fleet battle line. The swerving ships were not a problem for guided munitions. There was no contingency plan for this kind of attack, each ship was currently on their own. Some Destroyers were trying to make a smoke screen, which proved to be useless. There was nothing in the Grand Fleet arsenal to attack an airborne object. Still, some crewmen tried with their rifles and what machine guns they had that could point upward. The first Dreadnought to go under was the HMS Warspite, there would be no "Grand Old Lady" comment ever made. Within minutes of the first impact Jellico realized the hopelessness of the situation and ordered all his ships to make for Scapa Flow at best possible speed. The open air transmission was picked up by radio crews in the Zeppelins, this again was what the German High Command had expected.

For the next 30 minutes it was a deadly game of tag, one after another, British heavy ships were tagged with AP shells. With a new AP shell dropped every 20 to 30 seconds from each Zeppelin there was plenty of tagging going on. Sinking ships were hit repeatedly by different Zeppelins even though the bombardiers were instructed to aim for ships only within set degrees port and starboard of their Zeppelin. Fish in a barrel had more of chance to survive than the Grand Fleet did!

Beatty at this time was heard to make a now famous comment, "There's something wrong with the system of war when Zeppelins can sink our bloody ships."

As soon as the Zeppelins relayed the open air signal from Jellico, Scheer knew his fleet only had a set amount of time to get into position. All German ships had gigantic German flags painted on their gun turrets that could be seen from the air to ensure no bombardier would target their own country's ship. In under an hour they saw an amazing sight that was straight out of an HG Wells novel. British ships were sailing full speed zigging and zagging toward them being chased by air ships. There was no battle line to engage, so Scheer ordered the shell box to be created. All shells from the guns of the German battle line would form a "box of shell splashes" that would target the closest heavy British ship to be engaged. The High Seas Fleet had only a few training missions to practice this attack method, no one but the highest ranking personnel knew why it was being done. It was hoped the targeted ship would enter the targeted box area and get hit several times. There would be no lining up of ships and slugging it out like every naval officer from both countries had envisioned the beginning of the war. This would more resemble a medieval battlefield with archers blanketing a battle area with arrows. Once the first ship was sunk the next closest would be engaged.

Once Jellico saw the High Seas Fleet battle line between his fleet and Scapa Flow, he knew the worse day in his life had just gotten worse, much much worse. In his haste to get away from these deadly Zeppelins, he had completely forgotten about the German fleet. The few choices he had were swirling in his head. If he ordered his ships go around the German battle line while going to Scapa Flow, the German battle line would be giving his ships full broadsides while his ships approached and departed. He could form a battle line and go down fighting, he would probably lose all his ships but he would take some of the Germans with him. He could tell each ship to scatter and head for the closest safe port. His last choice was to do an Admiral Nelson and head straight for the enemy battle line and hope to break it like at Trafalgar. The only problem was the spacing of the German battle line, Jellico was not convinced his ships could fit through the spacing. None of the options seemed acceptable. The future of the British Empire was on the line and mere seconds to decide. His only choice was to go full speed ahead around the German battle line. An added benefit would the Zeppelins would stop dropping those blasted shells while they went through the battle line or so Jellicoe thought.

He issued an order for all ships to head straight at the edges of German battle line and continue to Scapa Flow at best possible speed and above else to not slow down to engage the German fleet. Most of the captains aboard the Grand Fleet wanted to disobey the "do not engage" order out of sheer anger but they knew better. All British ships headed straight for the edge of the German battle line and fired their forward guns as best they could. Some German Destroyers that tried to protect the battle line were rammed and cut in half. Some captains waited until they were at extreme close range and let loose with their forward guns, 3 German Dreadnoughts were damaged this way. The British were able to cross the German T but it was a T that looked like it was scribbled by a very drunken sailor since the British ships crossed the T piecemeal at a time.

As soon as Scheer saw what the British ships where doing he issued orders to form the box of shell impacts at the closest ship to the edges of his battle line. Scheer wasn't sure if the British were going to ram his ships, try to break through his line or go around them. Scheer had a decision of his own that he had to quickly choose, he saw the British ships were going to cross his T, sort of. He couldn't have his line rotate, there were too many ships in front of his line. The ships on the end of his line were just going to have to take the abuse of the incoming rounds.

Jellico was ecstatic when he saw his ships come through on the other sided of the battle line. It was short lived excitement when he saw water spray come up from both sides of one of his heavy ships. It was either a pair of torpedos or mines. The chances of torpedoes hitting on both sides of a ship at the same time were miniscule. That only left one thing, the heavy had sprung the third German trap of the day. German minelayers had been busy laying a special minefield behind the German battle line. Over 300 feet of steel lines with dark colored buoys to keep the line close to the surface connected 2 mines together to increase the odds of snagging a passing by ship that was too busy running to look for mines. The mine damaged heavy quickly drew the fire of the German guns and was put under the waves.

Even with the High Seas Fleet engaging the decimated Grand Fleet, more Dreadnoughts got away than the Kaiser had hoped for. The Kaiser had expected the total elimination of the British heavies. There were several reasons that saved what little was left of the Grand Fleet. Engine failure on one of the Zeppelins slowed it down so much that it had to head back to base and abandon the chase. Some of the flares failed to ignite before falling. A few reels snagged while unwinding the control wires causing the wire to snap and the AP shells fell harmlessly into the sea. The Grand Fleet zigging and zagging while attempting to move directly at the German battle line was another factor that saved them. The German gunners were just not accustomed to firing at an oncoming ship going full speed.

The Grand Fleet could not shake the Zeppelins, at their top speed they just couldn't outrun the Zeppelins. If the Zeppelins had to go against a headwind the Grand Fleet would have had more of a chance but there was none, the day was chosen very specifically by the German High Command. The major saving grace was night. But everyone knew where the Royal Navy was heading to hide, Scapa Flow.

Jellico had survived but 18 of his Dreadnoughts were at the bottom of the sea, 18! There was not a single heavy ship that was deemed battle ready. Some were so damaged that they may never be able to put out to sea again. It would take months, possibly years, to repair what was left of the Royal Navy. In a single afternoon, it appeared the British Empire would soon no longer exist. Once the news of the greatest naval defeat in Royal Navy history reached London, the entire population was stunned. It was too big of news to even attempt to keep secret. What to do now? The Royal Navy had protected the home isles for centuries and in a matter of hours it was decimated. The British were now on an isolated defenseless island that would soon wither on a vine. Any and all available British ships were ordered home immediately by the Royal Navy to reinforce the home Isles. Worse of all, it was reported that not a single German ship was sunk, not one. There were even rumors on the London and Paris streets that no German ships were damaged. The English Admiralty knew some German ships were damaged, they just did not know how badly and really did not want to admit a mere 3 German Dreadnaughts were damaged. What was true was the nightmare of a German invasion was actually possible and even likely now.

The next morning the Zeppelins returned to Scapa Flow to finish off the Dreadnoughts and other heavies. They had a nasty surprise waiting for them. The British had moved everything that could shoot lead into the air to the Orkneys and pointed all of them up. Machine guns on cart wheels, cannons on dirt ramps, soldiers with Lee Enfields, it was everything short of slingshots. They had brought their newly developed tracer ammunition with them as well. The first Zeppelin flew into a fiery lead wall. The .303 was very inaccurate past 1,000 meters but when thousands of rounds are going up, accuracy is not very important. The first Zeppelin was hit by tracers that ignited the bags of Hydrogen and was blown out of the sky with no survivors. The trailing Zeppelins dared not go close to the base since they saw how quickly the first one was dealt with.

The major problem with moving all available AA weapons to Scapa Flow was leaving the other ports open to air attack. Of course there were machine guns and other improvised AA devices around the UK, just not as in anywhere near as heavy concentration as Scapa Flow. The British military had one major thought on their mind after the Battle of Jutland defeat, defend what was left of the navy at all costs. It would take time to build AA defenses, time the Germans were positive they would never give the British. It also allowed the now much stronger High Seas Fleet to position itself between the Orkneys and the rest of the UK. English minefields were cleared and new minefields were laid to aide in the blockade of the Royal Navy. The Grand Fleet and High Seas Fleet role was now completely reversed. There was no way the weapons sent to Scapa Flow were going to come back. The next several days the Zeppelins targeted the major English dry docks and building yards to keep the Royal Navy down and out. With guided munitions, there were very few shells used to destroy the usefulness of a dry dock. The side effect of few civilian deaths was never even considered, by either side. With new ship production and repair capacity out of commission for at least 3 months the High Seas Fleet is free to patrol in the English Channel interrupting all convoys that were necessary to supply the BEF and French war production. The British military was very aware of this threat and immediately stopped all merchant ship movement between the UK and France, much to the anger and disappointment of the French, along with the High Seas Fleet whose patrols sank no merchant ships.

The German Naval Staff were both elated and horrified. The Royal Navy was now a mere shell of its former self and would be much more easily be eliminated. Yet it was not their mighty Dreadnoughts that had done the deed, it was a new fangled device that did not belong to any naval tradition. It was only by a direct order of the Kaiser that the plan had gone into effect due to the entire German Naval Staff at first laughing at the idea and then after a seeing a few tests realizing their old ways were in fact, old. The Kaiser had watched a live demonstration in a heavily guarded area of the Rhine. Even with major German patrols the test was deemed too important to allow the possibility of an enemy submarine spotting the test in any of the open sea areas. He saw a guided dummy shell impact on a target dragged behind a weaving river boat. The dummy shell hit the trailing target 3 out of 3 times. The Kaiser was happy beyond belief because he finally had a weapon to take on his stuck up cousin and he wouldn't have to gamble his precious ships doing it!

Zeppelin raids were contemplated on railroad junctures and troop marshalling points in France but the rapid use of AA defenses at Scapa Flow and the real possibility of the Allies getting a working copy of what caused the destruction of the Grand Fleet was considered too much to gamble. The Germans were lucky with the Zeppelin shot down over Scapa Flow, there was very little left of it for the British to analyze. The attacks on Royal Navy production and repair facilities were thought to be worth the risk.

The German High Command also considered stationing a few Zeppelins in the Pacific to defend their colonies there. It was decided the guided munitions was too great a surprise to be wasted defending some far away land when it could be used to hopefully wipe out the Royal Navy. It was still a possibility to send a few Zeppelins there after the Battle of Jutland to see if the Japanese and Australian navies could be scared into returning the colonies, not likely but the Kaiser could always demand it to be done.

Within a week pictures and film were released to the world. The Germans had put camera crews in the Zeppelins and on the ships of the High Seas Fleet to both maximize the PR and analyze any problems with their current tactics. Pictures and film that was not deemed classified was released for the whole world to see. Pictures of the Royal Navy being decimated were on the front pages of all the major newspapers in every country. To the outrage of the British Admiralty, a certain newspaper in the US ran with the headline, "ROYAL NAVY COWERS IN SCAPA FLOW!" The film was even worse. It showed English ships zigging and zagging with no organization while the German battle line was very precise and deadly. It was almost a comedy seeing the scattering English ships until they watched the HMS King George V and the HMS Iron Duke roll over in perfect synchronicity and disintegrate in two simultaneous explosions. With that, the realization that thousands of Englishman were dying in front of their eyes struck home to everyone that watched the film.

With the decimation of the Royal Navy at the Battle of Jutland happening in late May early June 1916 and the supporting dry docks the German Admirals never pressures the Kaiser to resume unrestricted submarine warfare and definitely no Zimmerman telegram. There is no future hope of direct US involvement with troops and war material coming to the aide of the UK and France. Future US loans are now in danger since the fall of the UK and France seem imminent.

Countermeasures, specifically AA guns, to the Zeppelins would be installed on all ships of all navies as soon as possible but no country will really have a fleet that can challenge the Hight Seas Fleet, except maybe the Americans who really don't want to become involved in a European struggle. The Asian colonies are pretty well gone, the High Seas Fleet cannot steam around the world to engage both the Australia and Japan navies. If a few Zeppelins were moved to Asia, it would be an empty threat, as there was really no place to base them or logistically support them. Maybe former French or British colonies. The African colonies could be regained and more added with the removal of threat of the Royal Navy.

So what happens in the summer of 1916?
France is going to be hurting very badly very quickly with no coal importation and other raw material.
What happens to the BEF, will the French support it or use their limited resources to support their own armies?
Would the BEF abandon the continent to try and do a 1916 Dunkirk?
Would the English government survive a motion of no confidence?
Would the Allies immediately sue for peace or try to hold out for some miracle?
Would the UK Government sue for peace and abandon the continent hoping Germany would be occupied with Russia and France?
Would the British Empire survive without a major portion of its navy?
Would Italy realize the mistake they made and sue for a separate peace?
Would Spain decide the time is right to demand Gibraltar back?
Would the Kaiser continue to make ridiculous peace demands and ensure WWI continues?
If the Kaiser demanded French Ports are now German Ports, all of Alsace-Lorraine, all African colonies returned including French and/or UK African colonies, would it be possible for the Allies to say no?
Would it be possible for the German Navy to blockade the entire UK?
Would it be possible for the German military to invade the UK, with reasonable expectations of winning?
Would the German army immediately attack in France to wear down the now limited Allied supplies or sit back and wait?
Would the Royal Navy withdraw from every corner of the world to consolidate the few heavy ships they had around the home waters?
With all the major dry docks in the UK damaged, would it be months or merely days to repair them? Not that it is really important with the UK fleet bottled up in Scapa Flow.
Would the US even consider making future loans to the Allies?
Would the US make a Monroe Doctrine speech to the Germans and possibly send troops to UK and French colonies?
What would the naval staffs of all the major countries do? Keep building Dreadnoughts and just add AA guns?
 
Germany loses by 1919. The POD seems highly unlikely. Nobody had a really good idea about what the naval forces would do at the outbreak of war. The Germans were expecting a close blockade and didn't have a back up plan for when the British didn't adopt it. The blockade at a distance will still continue here and Britain will just choke Germany to death more slowly.
 
The Royal Navy will just unleash its secret fleet of Laser equipped Sharks developed by Rear Admiral Evil and Midshipman Minime
 
Germany loses by 1919. The POD seems highly unlikely. Nobody had a really good idea about what the naval forces would do at the outbreak of war. The Germans were expecting a close blockade and didn't have a back up plan for when the British didn't adopt it. The blockade at a distance will still continue here and Britain will just choke Germany to death more slowly.

This is my first reply so I'm not to sure how to include quotes from previous forum postings.

It does not take an Einstein, not a comment aimed at you personally Mr. Poepoe, to figure out if you have X amount of a material, going through Y amount per month, it will be Z amount of months before that material is gone. This POD merely changes the German Naval Command from the hit and run tactics on the British Isles that hoped to bring out the Royal Navy to be destroyed piecemeal to a decisive battle with the hidden advantage clearly in the German corner.

I'm not quite sure what you are questioning. Do you think that with no heavies in the Royal Navy, Germany will still surrender in 1919? Not quite sure I understand how that would happen. If you think the POD is unlikely then obviously Germany would surrender in OTL of 1918.

As for the blockade continuing? ITTL the Royal Navy has nothing left to enforce it with. If a squadron of British Destroyers comes out to challenge a convoy from the US escorted by German Dreadnoughts, it's pretty clear how effective the blockade will be.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
Some thoughts.

1916 zepplins carried about 7 tons of bombs - so 5 zepplins is 35 tons.

At 900lb per bomb they carry at most 17 (and probably for reasons of balance 16 bombs) each. Even if we go with the POD of the guided shells they are unlikely to get more than couple of ships. From the secomd World War we know how hard it was for the Germans to keep weapons secreat - its probably fair to say they would have had only limited practice with the guidence system if they are going to spring this as a supprise there just are not that many places where they can ensure that no curiouse eyes will see what they are upto - and even allowing for their superior speed trying to hit specific part of a target manovering at 25-30 Knots from 5000 ft is not easy. As described the missiles are not going to be the most manoverable of systems.

Whilst ships below them could not elevate their guns to engage the torpedo boat destroyer screen could - and a zepplin itself is quite a large target.

I would expect the Germans to probably do better in this version of Jutland - maybe even to 'win' but it would not be a slaughter - the Grand fleet would remain a fleet in being - there are other forces that can reinforce it and 12pdr quickfiring guns will be added very quickly to counter the threat.

It would encourage the British to speed up development of Aircraft carriers - and possibly force the blockade to be conducted at longer range - some limited supplies might get through but probably not enough to materially effect the course of the war. The British and French Med fleets will have to be reduced - but lets ne honest the Austrian and Turkish fleets were not great threats - and supplies between the CP did not really require control of the sea.
 
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air(ship) happy

One of the 3 cardinal sins on this Board the other two being tankhappy and spacehappy.
 
You could possibly achieve the same thing as described in this scenario using torpedo bombers, which would take advantage of a proven technology (the torpedo) rather than anticipating the invention of the guided missile by nearly 30 years, using greatly inferior technology.

Indeed, if some of the German long-range heavy bombers like the Gotha could have been adapted to carry torpedoes, a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the Royal Navy anchorages at Scapa Flow might even have been possible.

Of course, that would have required that the Germans devote much more resources to aviation than they did in OTL, but it's not beyond the realm of plausibility that it could be done.
 
Wonderweapon TLs are always problematic. Historically, only one wonder weapon has ever lived up to what its supporters claimed, and that's the Atomic Bomb.

Plus, I believe you are grossly underestimating the complexity of deploying wire guided bombs from Airships. It's not just adapting the shell itself into a bomb, but also bombsights (nonexistent OTL at this time) for the airships, and very specialized training. Consider the rather disappointing hit ratios of German wire and radio guided bombs in WWII with bombsights, and the fact that the shells will have almost no penetration without dropping from high altitude, I expect the weapon will accomplish very little, even if weather conditions don't completely disrupt airship operations, which happens an awful lot with the gasbags.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
Just done some quick research on the web.

Even the battle ships are not without Anti-Aircraft guns. For example HMS Tiger carried 2 * 3" Anti-Aircraft guns (QF 3 inch 20 cwt AA gun high-angle Mark II mount had a maximum depression of 10° and a maximum elevation of 90°. The gun fired a 12.5-pound (5.7 kg) shell at a muzzle velocity of 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s) at a rate of 12–14 rounds per minute. It had a maximum effective ceiling of 23,500 ft (7,200 m))

Not a large armament per ship but it seems that most of the major British ships carried them and a Zepplin is a far larger (Nearly as large as a Battle Crusier...) and slower (Around twice the speed of a battle crusier) target than a bi-plane - and we can assume that they would have engaged the Zepplins as soon as they came in range (They would probably assume that the Zepplins were scouting for the HSF and they would have wanted to stop that)

HMS Engadine only carried four aircraft but they would have tried to attack - and I can imagine a Naval pilot being prepared to crash his plane into a Zepplin if he saw the fleet being slaughtered.

The German weapons described are not stand off weapons but have to be delivered from close to above the target - given the sheer number of British ships that have 'some' weapon that can be deployed it seems (IMHO) ASB to believe that 5 200m long Zepplins flying at 60-70 Knots at 5000ft are going to survive long enough to scatter the fleet.
 
Orry,

The weight capacity of the Zeppelin was a major error on my part. I thought the LZ104 that was used to attempt to supply Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck had a much greater payload than 16 tons.

Reading more about Zeppelins, they probably wouldn't survive the attack. LZ32 and LZ55 were damaged by ship fire before the Battle of Jutland.

I believe you are correct in saying the Grand Fleet would not be slaughtered, not with so few guided AP shells.

German bombers of the time would be of little use as well. Not fast enough to allow repeated attacks and not enough of a payload to carry more than one shell.

Guess this timeline will get sunk before the Grand Fleet. :eek:
 
Xchen,

The use of a flare would negate the need for a bombsight, it would probably hinder its use immensely. The film I saw of a HS293 being used was a bombardier looking out the nose cone guiding the projectile with a joystick.
 
There are parts of this POD that wouldn't work even on a good day in 1914 and that is my main criticism. Since nobody in 1914 was expecting the war to go even into 1915 there would be no reason to develop such a weapon. The payload capability of the zeppelins is overestimated.

Since London, or at least portions of Britain, had already been exposed to zeppelin raids I strongly doubt that any admiral would not be extremely worried that there were zeppelins flying over their battleline. One would think that the appearance of zeppelins would cause some concern that the Grand Fleet had been sighted and its location reported.

As an aside, what is interesting is that there were a few members of the Royal Naval Flying Corps that was early as 1913 were figuring out the way to launch an aerial torpedo assault against the German naval base at Wilhelmshaven.
 
To use the idea of turning a shell into a bomb, it would be bringing forward the idea/development by 25 years as this is what the Japanese did at Pearl Harbour (I read somewhere that one of Nagato's converted 16" shells did for the USS Arizona)

From that point of view, it is possible, but the 12" shell? I would expect Germany to go for the 15" shell off the Bayern Class (They were not battle-ready for Jutland, but their shells would be available for use) as they would do more damage.

Also, as has been pointed out, British ships carried AA in 1916. Only one or 2 guns each, but still enough to do for a Zeppelin sooner or later. I see some damage being done, but all the Zeppelins being lost, and the Grand Fleet being much more intact when it meets the HSF. I also have a problem with the HSF laying a minefield right behind their battle line. Maybe a few miles away though so that their big ships don't run into it.

All in all, intresting, but I seriously doubt the RN would loose many ships to the shell-bombs (Unless you got a very lucky magazine hit like that on the USS Arizona), at which point it turns into a fur-ball battle between big ships, and in that the HSF would loose due to the GF's numerical superiority.

That is my thought anyway.....
 
One problem might be that the 1916 Zeppelin was not capable of hauling a large load of cargo/passangers, so the speculation it could carry 7 tons of bombs is a bit overestimated. More practially only 1 ton at best, with reduced crew and fuel, since the open gondola under this periods Zeppelin was the only place it could be launched from. (Only after the Great War much larger Zeppelins came into use.)

The more practical option would be to make use of the large Dornier Floatplanes and modify these into bombers, essentially resulting in a sort of Gotha, but then on floats. These could not fly at a high altitude, but could carry bombs, or even better: torpedoes. The common German 45 cm and 50 cm torpedoes could easily be addapted for use by aircraft, if needed. No modified bombs from shells needed this time, as torpedoes were much more deadly.
 
One problem might be that the 1916 Zeppelin was not capable of hauling a large load of cargo/passangers, so the speculation it could carry 7 tons of bombs is a bit overestimated. More practially only 1 ton at best, with reduced crew and fuel, since the open gondola under this periods Zeppelin was the only place it could be launched from. (Only after the Great War much larger Zeppelins came into use.)

Most of the zeppelins the Germans were using in 1916 had enclosed gondolas and carried their bomb loads within their hull. At the beginning of the war the early model zeppelins did have open gondolas.
 
Germany developed 4 torpedo bombers during 1916-1918. Total of about 20 for all. They carried the 1,600 lb torpedo and the RANGE was about 300 miles.
 
Its a good TL and I dare anyone to come up with a better one.

Did some quick rez on Zepplins.
The SLs generally dropped 4000+kg of bombs = 8800 lbs = 9 12 inch AP shells.
Use of 12 in vs 13.5 or 15 in seems plausible. Extra penetration not needed, BBs didnt have deck armor designed against bomb attack yet anyway. Better to have a couple extra shots for practice.

I'd assume the Germans practiced a few times and figured out how to steer their bombs. Its not exactly as easy as stated, the bombs ALWAYS spin, so your Up/Down and L/R are always changing.

Upside for the Germans, they can drop from 10,000 ft and get the same results, and take a lot less AAA fire. English AA was dreadful in 1916. Almost as bad as German airship night navigation. In the daytime it would have been ... iffy.

Big upside for Germans.. it'd only take one or to hits or near misses to damage the RN BBs enough to put them out of action for months. And the minefield idea was well put. The RN didnt cope well with change in WW1 (who did?) Break the blockade for a year and things might have worked out differently.
 
How an original idea for a POD !!

really I like it !! almost steampunk

A combination of two verry crude and at that time hardly out of laboritory phase techniques.

Never mind the posts who only see trouble and, can not do's, its ALT history:D
 
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Anaxagoras

Banned
The British would have known something was afoot, because the codebreakers in Room 40 had long since cracked the German naval codes and ciphers, including those used by Zepplins.
 

Orry

Donor
Monthly Donor
:cool:

I think the origional poster realised that he had miscalculated the number of missiles that could be carried. He was thinking in terms of Hundereds. The big Zepplins used later in 1916 could carry about 7 tons of bombs which limits the number of shots.

AA fire was inaccurate - against small planes - a Zepplin was around 600+ feet long (about the same size as a Battle Cruiser) - that is not a small target - it is a barn door :D

The British gunners would have plenty of time to get ready - and about 5 minutes to fire before the Zepplins can get in range (even at 10,000ft) - about 100 shots per ship in range.:eek: (That only counts the battle wagons - the escort ships would be blazing away as well....)

If the guidence system worked its a nice trick - its just that the delivery system could not survive long enough to get in enough attacks to make a major difference. Against a target with no AA defence - the origional assumption - it could be a battle winner.
 
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