Battle of Britain - Specification Swap

I'll not argue with that. However, I think the improvement in performance over the Hurricane is more important.

I haven't looked them up but I'm sure that the Bf109E had a better rate of climb and higher ceiling that both British fighters. If that is correct the scrambled British fighers are going to be higher than when they meet the Germans who will be lower. That would reduce the height advantage that the Germans often had.

Another advantage the British had was American 100 Octane fuel, assuming that the necessary modification of the engines, in the Messersmith over the Sturm and Feuerwind (probably terrible guesses at the German names for Hurricane and Spitfire) will be able to get a power boost in combat.
 

Deleted member 1487

Another advantage the British had was American 100 Octane fuel, assuming that the necessary modification of the engines, in the Messersmith over the Sturm and Feuerwind (probably terrible guesses at the German names for Hurricane and Spitfire) will be able to get a power boost in combat.
Germany had C3 high octane fuel in 1940 too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_of_the_Battle_of_Britain#100_octane_aviation_fuel
At the start of the war the Luftwaffe standardized on 87 octane aviation gasoline, called "B-4", made from leaded hydro-petrol extracted from brown coal.[42] In 1940 an improved fuel, designated "C-2" was introduced having a higher aromatic content of 35-38% and giving performance equivalent to Allied 100 octane grade of that time.[42] C-2 was used in small quantities by aircraft such as the Messerschmitt Bf 109E-4/N and E-7/N and the Messerschmitt Bf 110C when equipped with the DB 601N engine, that entered series production in October 1939.[43] The power was increased by 20% over that of the DB 601A, to 1,260 hp at 6,900 feet (2,100 m) at 1.35 atm boost pressure and 2,400 rpm.[43][44] By July, nine Bf 110 and three Bf 109 fighter Staffeln (squadrons) were equipped with the new engines,[44] By the end of October around 1,200 DB 601N engines had been delivered.[45] and the number of aircraft equipped with the improved engine gradually increased through the second half of the year.[46] However, due to leaking valves there was relatively high wear on the 601N-engines, which had a life of about 40 hours.[47][48]
 
I don't think individual aircraft performance had much to do with the outcome of the BoB. The integrated air defense environment with the advanced C3 environment combined with fighting over home turf (allowing pilots to return if they were shot down or diverted) had more bearing on the results.
 
armament wise the 109 takes it..i know the cannon ammo is limited but in this situation where the brits were all about get up there, hit them and get down and turned around as quick as possible i dont think the firing time of the cannon counts against them as much as the cannon damages adds

we all know the spit climbs faster than the hurri (about 7 mins to 20k if memory serves for the spit, and 8 ish for the hurri) but i dont know a time to height for the 109 (i;m assuming its in the ballpark so again not really a profit or loss)

other things like ease of manufacture have already been covered
 

Deleted member 1487

I don't think individual aircraft performance had much to do with the outcome of the BoB. The integrated air defense environment with the advanced C3 environment combined with fighting over home turf (allowing pilots to return if they were shot down or diverted) had more bearing on the results.
Not exactly, but fighter spec was a much more minor factor; being on the defensive and forcing the outnumbered fighters of the attackers to come to use and burn up half their fuel just getting to the battlefield was much more important, plus being able to get back to base and rearm again and again vs. the one trip a day for the attacker. As it was the British started with more fighters and produced more fighters and pilots during the battle, while the Germans were just worn down during it due to the weak mobilization of the aviation industry, use of PoW labor that resulted in sabotaged replacement aircraft that needed to be worked over before they could even be used, and just the general shittiness of Goering's leadership (tying fighters to bombers in close escort duty restricting their ability to do their job).
 
True as did the British but the Americans were the sole provider of the grade in strategic quantities.

Firstly, 100 octane fuel only increased performance below about 15,000 ft, and most of the fighting was at that level or above. By far the bigger improvement was the switch to constant speed propellers that happened in July 1940.

Secondly, whilst Britain was buying large amounts of 100 octane from the US, that wasn't the only source of supply. They were also importing it from Abadan in Iran, Trinidad, Curacao and Aruba in the Caribbean and producing it in 2 British refineries, Billingham and Stanlow.

Government records show that in August 1940, planned and actual imports between May 1940 and April 1941 would amount to 27.8 million tons of oil, of which 6.3 million tons would come from the US.

1,324,000 tons of this would be aviation fuel, of which 205,900 tons, 16% of the total, would come from the US.

Britain later cut back on imports from the Middle East in favour of increased imports from the US, because the sea route was shorter, but the RAF was not dependent on US fuel for the BoB.
 
Firstly, 100 octane fuel only increased performance below about 15,000 ft, and most of the fighting was at that level or above. By far the bigger improvement was the switch to constant speed propellers that happened in July 1940.

Secondly, whilst Britain was buying large amounts of 100 octane from the US, that wasn't the only source of supply. They were also importing it from Abadan in Iran, Trinidad, Curacao and Aruba in the Caribbean and producing it in 2 British refineries, Billingham and Stanlow.

Government records show that in August 1940, planned and actual imports between May 1940 and April 1941 would amount to 27.8 million tons of oil, of which 6.3 million tons would come from the US.

1,324,000 tons of this would be aviation fuel, of which 205,900 tons, 16% of the total, would come from the US.

Britain later cut back on imports from the Middle East in favour of increased imports from the US, because the sea route was shorter, but the RAF was not dependent on US fuel for the BoB.

Ah interesting, I had not realised how much 'native' supply was available.
 
What effect would there be on the Battle of Britain if instead of the Hurricane/Spitfire the Brits had the Bf109 and the Germans the Hurricane/Spitfire?

I think not that much. The real issue here is that Germany was waging an offensive bomber war over enemy territory at the limits of their range while Britain was waging a defensive war over their own territory. The war was won not so much because English Spitfires were shooting down so many Nazi fighters, but because English Hurricanes were shooting down so many Nazi bombers the latter never achieved their goal of annihilating Britains defenses from above. It was not even that the German bombers were so bad either. They were just operating at the limits of their capacity. This combined with the English defense system of radar, spotter stations, radio interception and a very effective high command.

This being said, I think the only planes that would make a difference for the Germans would be if they had a P47 as heavy ground attack fighter and a B26 as a strategic bomber... Or in other words if they had the technology and production capacity the USA had in 1945... in Germany, in 1940... Alien Space Bats indeed.
 
More RAF Pilots die/crippled from landing accidents in the 109 vs easier flying Spit and far more forgiving Hurricane a bonus for the Nazis
 
What effect would there be on the Battle of Britain if instead of the Hurricane/Spitfire the Brits had the Bf109 and the Germans the Hurricane/Spitfire?

Negligible either way - I imagine that the Canon on the BF109 would make it 'slightly' better at shooting down twin engine bombers?

On the negative side IIRC the BF109 didn't like hits to the front where damage to the coolant system basically reduced the life of the engine to about 5 minutes before it seized.

The real differences between the 2 Air forces where...

The Germans had more operational Experience at the beginning of the battle which initially gave them an advantage particularly during the Channel battles - Particularly in fighter tactics

The British had a Robust Air defence network and their own Operational Experience would soon match that of their opponents - this coupled with the RAF Fighter Commands policy of rotating units and ability to provide replacements etc would win them the battle regardless of aircraft type used.
 
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