Battle at the Elbe

An idea that's dinked around in my head for the last couple years, but I figured if I want to write a TL I ought to get a feasibility check.

I have often wondered what if WWII evolved into a war of the USA vs. USSR? obviously this probably won't happen without some serious change in leadership in one of the major countries. I would think it might be the USSR (maybe Stalin dies and a crazy general takes over? Maybe the western powers are blamed for his death?). Because the British and American generals were already pretty anti-Communist to my knowledge and i don't think would have minded fighting Russians.

I know this could be difficult to see the realistic aspect of waging continuous war. Most countries were pretty war weary by this time or simply broke and unable to continue war.

The premise is that maybe a month after Germany surrendered the USSR simply attacked the Allied Forces in Germany. This sparks a new war against the USSR and her allies. But this is a larger scale war: The USSR invading Alaska and trying to bomb the West Coast, The Allies and the USSR slogging it out in Europe, A theatre in China as the USSR tries to establish the communists in China and the Allies put troops in to support Chiang. Perhaps some brush wars in South and Central America (possibly involving the Panama Canal). At the same time both sides tried to stir up trouble in the minority areas of their opponent's territories (The USSR in the European Empires and the USA in Poland and Central Asia ect.) In general just a much larger war with the U.S. mainland seeing combat.

Obviously there is much to be considered here: How would new technologies influence the fighting? Especially the atomic bomb. I wouldn't want this to simply be a wank so perhaps some sabotaging by Soviet spies or maybe the option wasn't pursued until after this new war had begun? How would the conflict end? Just another cold war? How would this change what we know as the course of history, would the U.S. prop us the Europeans to keep their colonies as bulk wards against communism (but for real unlike in the OTL where the U.S. threatened to sink the Pound if GB didn't withdraw from the Suez)?

Here's the alliance break down as I thought about it
Allies:
U.S.A.
Fourth French Republic
United Kingdom
Brazil
Kingdom of Italy
Nationalist China
Canada
Ethiopia
Greater German Republic (captured officers agreed to lead their troops into battle against the soviets in return for a Germany with 1938 [including Austria] borders restored)
Spain and Portugal (Possible, not entirely sure...)
Turkey (again maybe....)
Free (anti-communist) Forces of Poland, Hungary, and in general exiled White Russians

USSR and Allies:
USSR
Peoples Republic of: Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Mongolia ect.
German Democratic Republic (same premise as the above for the allies, much less successful)
Peoples Republic of China
Empire of Japan (though neither side is particularly friendly to the other Japan has just fought a major war against the U.S. and GB and is willing to side with USSR for support and Moscow doesn't want the U.S. to have a backdoor into the USSR).
Peoples Republic of Iran (Persia)
Peoples Republic of Greece (Democratic Army of Greece finally wins one)
United Socialist Italy (Communist Partisans in Italy that establish minor state in Northern Italy)
Peoples Republic of India (I would hazard a guess that perhaps the Indian communist party could garner support under the guise of independence from GB. I don't know how big they were, but I know Stalin's daughter loved one of them.)
Zulu Republic (Black South Africa)
Communist insurgents in other parts of Africa as well as Europe (Communist insurgents in America?)
(Insert name of Central/South American states that might support the USSR. I don't know enough about their history to make educated guesses)

Neutrals:
Scandinavian countries including Finland
Yugoslavia
Iraq

Let me know what you guys think criticism/critiques/ideas all welcome
 
Uh ... no.

1. A war between the USA and USSR in 1945 has been done. Not that you can't do it too, but think about it some - most of the 'people's republics' you list didn't exist yet, fpr example. India was British - Gandhi wasn't jumping on Stalin's bandwagon, for example.
2. There was very little appetite for this conflict. The Russians didn't want it, the US didn't, and the UK didn't.
3. The 'sides' are interesting, but there are really only four countries that matter (and arguably only two of those really matter) - the USA, the USSR, the UK and Japan. As Stalin famously asked - "how many divisions has the Pope?' - how many divisions have ANYONE else at this point?
4. Soviets invading Alaska and raiding the US West Coast in 1945. No. Just no. Not through the largest navy in the history of humanity as a species.
5. The fundemental problem this scenario has (or maybe it's not a problem) is that the United States is way, way stronger than the USSR in 1945 and the Russians knew it. Oh sure, the Red Army was a huge, well-equipped experienced force that could have probably made it to the Rhine or even beyond, but it was a brittle force. The Soviets were beyond scraping the barrel for manpower, their logistical system was shaky at best, and, worst of all, they could not compete in the air for very long. There WAllied tactical air and fighters would have - eventually - cleared the Sturmoviks from the sky, and then the Soviet logistical system (running on near-ruined Nazi tracks) would have been shot up.

The Soviets also had no navy.

Finally, there is no way to prevent the United States from dropping a-bombs on the Soviet Army, Soviet cities and Soviet research facilities.

Result: The US Army enters Moscow in 1947. Say hello to the 'Republic of Russia' in 1950 or so.

Mike Turcotte
 

GarethC

Donor
If it's a month after Germany surrenders, then the Pacific War is still going.

Even if the USSR explicitly allies with Japan, neither of them has a fleet worth mentioning, whereas the enormous carrier force of the USN is a veteran warfighting machine. There is a British Pacific Fleet as well (as there is little for all those battleships to do in Europe) with a bunch of CVs intended to liberate Malaya, Singapore, the DEI, and FIC.

I would be hugely surprised if Alaska gets invaded - such an event is right up there with Seelowe, given the status of Soviet sealift in the Pacific. Far more likely would be Uncle Sam's Misguided Children going on holiday in Vladivostok.
 
Happy and Glorious

The best effort I've seen here is "Happy and Glorious" https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=219221

which has a POD in 1940 (Survival of the HMS Glorious) and where Poland manages to regain its independence in 1945. The WWIII occurs in Winter of 1946-1947 which was one of the worst in Northwest Europe in a century or so. This hurts the Western Allies and helps the Soviets. The Americans are Nuking Soviet cities as the bombs come on line and the question is when the Soviets fall apart and how rather than whether...
 
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