Basil II captures Sofia in 986?

[Vinization]

Before the Battle of the Gates of Trajan, which was the worst defeat in his career, Roman emperor Basil II besieged Sofia/Sredets for twenty days before ordering a withdrawal, which caused the ambush where he nearly lost his life.

What if that siege was successful? Bardas Phokas' revolt, which was caused by the defeat of the emperor, probably wouldn't happen, sparing the empire from a three year long civil war.

As for Bulgaria, what would happen? Would said country be conquered ten, twenty, perhaps thirty years before OTL, since Basil hoped to defeat them in a single decisive strike?

What would he do next, since he would have plenty of time before his death in 1025? Would he try to conquer Sicily, as he apparently planned to do in his last years, or move against the Fatimids in Syria?

Would he marry and perhaps have a son?

 

[Vinization]

Maybe I'm just being impatient, but I thought that a WI that involves making one of this board's favorite Byzantine emperors an even more successful ruler would inspire a quick response. Well, here goes a bump with content.

Basil's predecessor, John Tzimiskes, marched as far south as Nazareth and Damascus in his last campaign in the Middle East. Could Basil repeat this feat and maintain any gains that come from it?

 

[MagnusMaximus]

Maybe I'm just being impatient, but I thought that a WI that involves making one of this board's favorite Byzantine emperors an even more successful ruler would inspire a quick response. Well, here goes a bump with content.

Basil's predecessor, John Tzimiskes, marched as far south as Nazareth and Damascus in his last campaign in the Middle East. Could Basil repeat this feat and maintain any gains that come from it?

Try finding a POD for Byzantium that isn't just "This guy conquers more" since honestly TLs in and around Byzantium have been done to death by this point so it's not really captivating to see the same generic 10th century Byzantine Emperor conquering this or that region POD. Some PODs that focus on things like social structure, culture, or migration is much more intriguing than these frankly lazily made PODs.

 

[Tibi088]

Try finding a POD for Byzantium that isn't just "This guy conquers more" since honestly TLs in and around Byzantium have been done to death by this point so it's not really captivating to see the same generic 10th century Byzantine Emperor conquering this or that region POD. Some PODs that focus on things like social structure, culture, or migration is much more intriguing than these frankly lazily made PODs.

Please speak for yourself. And labeling Basil II as generic... I also dont remember that many proposed PODs concerning him.

 

[Vinization]

Please speak for yourself. And labeling Basil II as generic... I also dont remember that many proposed PODs concerning him.

In his defense, there are just so many Byzantine TLs out there (and they're good ones, too!) that having yet another WI show up can be a little tiring. Never seen one focused on Basil, funnily enough.

 

[Silver01]

Assuming that after that he figths with samuel and wins Bulgaria could be conquered Bulgaria in 980s basil wanted a figth with the Fatimid caliphate and now well he was some 30 ish year to figth them
@John7755 يوحنا what so you think you know more about caliphates and I would like your opinion before I make say about the Byzantine capacity of basil reing

 

[StrikeEcho]

Honestly it's a shame most of the Byzantine timelines focuses on the 600s, Crusades or post 1204 period. I don't think there a long TL focused on the Macedonians on the board!

Anyways, Basil would probably been able to implement his reforms earlier and make them longer lasting and he might get married so the Macedonian dynasty could've continued until 1071.

 

[Lady Visenya]

Before the Battle of the Gates of Trajan, which was the worst defeat in his career, Roman emperor Basil II besieged Sofia/Sredets for twenty days before ordering a withdrawal, which caused the ambush where he nearly lost his life.

What if that siege was successful? Bardas Phokas' revolt, which was caused by the defeat of the emperor, probably wouldn't happen, sparing the empire from a three year long civil war.

As for Bulgaria, what would happen? Would said country be conquered ten, twenty, perhaps thirty years before OTL, since Basil hoped to defeat them in a single decisive strike?

What would he do next, since he would have plenty of time before his death in 1025? Would he try to conquer Sicily, as he apparently planned to do in his last years, or move against the Fatimids in Syria?

Would he marry and perhaps have a son?

Well, would this be a TL where he doesn't have to deal with his OTL Civil Wars?

 

[Vinization]

Well, would this be a TL where he doesn't have to deal with his OTL Civil Wars?

He wouldn't have his great moment of weakness, so yes. In fact, he would likely reach his OTL apogee much earlier.

 

[Silver01]

Well, would this be a TL where he doesn't have to deal with his OTL Civil Wars?

Pretty much iam not sure how his war if he decides it with the Fatimid caliphate would go maybe he can conquer the northern portion of syria and maybe down to jerusalem of course there is always the possibilities that during this time he makes another person co emperor and thus his incompetent brother doesn't take the throne depends on who takes it but if he is just good it's a step up from the sucesors of basil II best case scenario this good emperor rules till 1040s depends on who his successor is but I can't imagine we would get the whole 50 years of incompetent ones from basil II death to romanos taking power .

 

[Dementor]

Capturing Sofia doesn't defeat Samuil's army which was waiting in Basil's rear. Continuing the campaign leaves the Bulgarian army free to cut him off from resupply while his army will be further weakened by the need to leave a garrison in Sofia. This looks like a recipe for disaster - one from which he might not escape. Retreating is not exactly a good idea either - it would not avoid the ambush and might make it worst (see Nikephoros I in a similar situation). Best bet would probably be to attempt to draw the Bulgarians into battle in a more convenient (like in attempting to recapture Sofia). But this would probably require a wiser Basil and one who didn't underestimate the Bulgarians. Considering how badly conceived the whole campaign was, this was not yet the case.

 

[Vinization]

Capturing Sofia doesn't defeat Samuil's army which was waiting in Basil's rear. Continuing the campaign leaves the Bulgarian army free to cut him off from resupply while his army will be further weakened by the need to leave a garrison in Sofia. This looks like a recipe for disaster - one from which he might not escape. Retreating is not exactly a good idea either - it would not avoid the ambush and might make it worst (see Nikephoros I in a similar situation). Best bet would probably be to attempt to draw the Bulgarians into battle in a more convenient (like in attempting to recapture Sofia). But this would probably require a wiser Basil and one who didn't underestimate the Bulgarians. Considering how badly conceived the whole campaign was, this was not yet the case.

Well, I assume the Byzantines' morale would be much better since they would be fresh off a great victory (in their view at least) instead of a huge fiasco, so that'd help. Were there alternate paths back to safety, like going straight for Thessalonica, or would they require marching through too much hostile territory?

 

[Tjakari]

But this would probably require a wiser Basil and one who didn't underestimate the Bulgarians. Considering how badly conceived the whole campaign was, this was not yet the case.

Sometimes the hardest lessons are the ones you have to learn. Considering this POD, there's bound to be some negative consequence from this.

An interesting question I would ask, would be "What if Basil never went on campaign at all?" Or at least this particular one.

*Had a funny thought that's really really off-base, but this is kind of like a "Spiderman saves Uncle Ben" scenario. You're depriving the man in question of the most important lesson in war and life that he ever got.

It's just as like to destroy him early as it is to make way for glory.

I don't want to buy into any narrative where it's some sort of imperative that Basil needs to fail to be a capable emperor, but I do think that playing this scenario out results in a similar if not worse reckoning. One that might do him worse than OTL.

 

[Vinization]

It's just as like to destroy him early as it is to make way for glory.

Frankly, it's what makes this POD so interesting. Of course, you can always go the absolute wank route, but you can also have Basil do something mind numbingly stupid that actually hastens the ERE's fall by several centuries. Like, maybe he antagonizes his new subjects too much and they go on a giant uprising like the one Peter Delyan led, all the while the Fatimids stir up trouble in the east as they try to take Antioch, and then one or two generals rise up because they smell blood in the water.