Barbarossa

The Eastern Front World War

Scenario 1:

Semyon Budyonny launches an all out counter offensive against Army Group South instead of having his million man Army entrapped and destroyed in Kiev in 1941

Scenario 2:

General Paulus follows through on the crushing victory of the German Wehrmacht at the Battle of Vorenhez by reinforcing the bridgehead over the Don and convincing Hitler to "let them come to us" allowing for yet another offensive by Army Group Center on Moscow in the Summer of 1942
 

Deleted member 1487

The Eastern Front World War

Scenario 1:

Semyon Budyonny launches an all out counter offensive against Army Group South instead of having his million man Army entrapped and destroyed in Kiev in 1941
We need a lot of detail about how this would work or even be possible. Likely still results in the same outcome given how badly the Soviet CiC was working at the time.


Scenario 2:

General Paulus follows through on the crushing victory of the German Wehrmacht at the Battle of Vorenhez by reinforcing the bridgehead over the Don and convincing Hitler to "let them come to us" allowing for yet another offensive by Army Group Center on Moscow in the Summer of 1942
Again we need a bit more detail about what you mean by this. Letting them 'come to us' is quite different than going on the offensive against Moscow. 5th Tank Army did counterattack and was wiped out, but the Soviets stayed off the offensive against AG-South from Moscow after that.
 
Budyenny was in charge of the bulk of the Red Army's forced in World War 2 in June, 1941 and according to David Glantz's research from the archives represented the strategic counter strike to any German offensive surprise or otherwise. He did in fact attack with his tank Army directly into Army Group South's main body which while it was annihilated showed a Russian willingness to close with and the destroy the enemy...yet for reasons inexplicable even today he left the rest of is more than one million man Army...something more than a match for Germany's confused and staff led Army Group South hunkered down in Kiev "awaiting orders" with Stalin telling ... indeed ordering his Southwestern Front Commanders ... to go on the attack as per the strategic plan....a very sound one indeed. Instead the entire Army refused their orders and once discovered by Army Group South was with very powerful help from the Fuhrer himself surrounded and utterly destroyed in one of the greatest military Victories in History.

As for Scenario Two neither side knew that the bulk mof the offensives would be in Southern Russia first off causing the Red Army to launch a catastrophic attack in "their Rasputah" in the Second Battle of Kiev in the Spring of 1942 resulting in the entire strategic vision of the Red Army's Plan being destroyed too and we now now know after yet another crushing Wehrmacht victory at Vorenhzeh orders from the Stavka for a "strategic withdrawal." If German intelligence had been paying attention to this they could have seen that the bulk of Moscow lay yet again defenseless and instead of "meeting their fate in Stalingrad" could yet again have siezed the initiative in the North...most poignantly with a literally unused 300,000 man German Army in Norway which was there to attack Murmansk but never did.

More to the point what sense did it make to divide Army Group South into two groups (A and B) with one to gain control of the oil fields in the Causcuses and the other to do "whatever" when your best Field Commander (Von Manstein) is left to wipe out the best defensive fortification in the World in Sevastopol? If instead Sevastopol had been taken intact and all that manpower been used to secure a bridghead across Kerch Strait and an Army Group Caucuses created Germany could not only have cut off Russia's oil supplies heading North threatening Army Group South but in theory could have seized the oil for themselves and in one final push knocking Russia out of the War.

Instead Hitler gave us..."Stalingrad....

Thanks for your reply.
 
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