Bad Company: A Timeline

Well, OTL the US navy was sabotaged by Jefferson. This timeline it has enough strength that it could legitimately give a good account for itself besides frigate duels.

Still outnumbered by a more than considerable margin, but it would be interesting to know if that matters.

Heavily gunned United States 74s :D
Well yes...but still, those ships took several years to build, and GB still has numerical advantage, if not always the best in leadership (any nations military has members you wonder how they got there with their limited or zip abilities).

Hmmm....anyone thought of Fultons Nautilus? I think that could see perhaps a coastal/lake defense object..not sure the practical applications outweigh flaws, but hey, how many timelines include such things....
 
Well yes...but still, those ships took several years to build, and GB still has numerical advantage, if not always the best in leadership (any nations military has members you wonder how they got there with their limited or zip abilities).

Yeah, but realistically the building program starts in around 1800 - plenty of time to have at least some of them built, and if the ships OTL sold by Jefferson aren't and...there is some potential here.

I'm not saying it would be a US win overall, but the US can probably give a more meaningful fight.

Hmmm....anyone thought of Fultons Nautilus? I think that could see perhaps a coastal/lake defense object..not sure the practical applications outweigh flaws, but hey, how many timelines include such things....

Now that would be interesting to see in action. Useless or otherwise.
 
This seems like something worth elaborating on. Not necessary, just that it would be an interesting alt-history biography to read.

Either way, knowing stuff in books is one thing, being able to implement it is another - but I imagine West Point* opens earlier in this timeline if he has anything to say about it, because that sounds like a logical idea.

Good idea, that will definitely be added.

Speaking as another American, we all know that American historical knowledge can be summed up by saying that Abraham Lincoln defeated the Nazis at the Battle of Saratoga.

I agree completely.

I think the problem is that the circumstances that prompted things OTL do not apply here, and the OTL Hartford Convention seems more moderate than this one's on the secession issue. This may change with Hamilton's leadership, but I'm not sure how much influence he would have in that regard.

Again, I know far less on the guy than I'd like.

Also of course if the Federalists are a significant party, they'd probably fare just fine in the Union even if Jefferson is an overrated twit.

The Federalists in the North saw that with a Jefferson presidency, everything they had accomplished over the past 8 years would be undone, and that could not be allowed. Jeffs
policies could have been filibustered with a majority of Federalists but also, the North never wanted war with Britain, and that was pretty much the final straw. The Movement becomes more radical when Hamilton returns from Canada victorious and leads the Convention.

Dude, did you ever consider the fact that the Napoleonic veterans from Europe would have arrived, and did arrive in OTL, would most likely have smashed the American Army. No bloody way did/ or could they have taken Canada.
Then the British just simply give it up like that? For what?:confused::confused: Dude, you need to elaborate your facts in the story a little more.

Britain couldn't free up any troops due the the Napoleonic Wars constantly flaring up, and America attacked too fast for them to fortify Canada with what they had at the ready. America's Army is small, but very elite, and was able to take Canada swiftly. There were heavy repercussions for this however.

I'm also with Elfwine on his theories about Hamilton. He's gone from President of the United States to President of Columbia. Despotic enough. He is no Caesar dude.
Also, Jefferson. What the fuck is going on with him. Sure the purchase of Louisiana certainly does state/facts that he believes the American continent should be free of all European powers, but still, to go to war with England for Canada. I dunno. DOesn't sound like a Jefferson tactic.

Hamilton is no Caesar, he's more of a front man for the cause. Like how Washington was for the early Union. The secession of the North was purely political, and Hamilton wasn't the genius who implemented it, well not solely at least :D.

Also, there were a lot of reasons for going to war with the Brits, I've stated them before. When Jefferson came into power, he had an army he could use and an enemy to directed at.

Hmmm....some interesting ideas, but seems....hard to explain.

Also, before we go into "Americans beat Royal Navy" time, the battles were single actions mainly, with only one or two fleet actions of OTL 1812 (Lake Erie being freshwater...)

Interesting to see what you do with the Perry Brothers and the USS Constitution (one of my favorite sailing vessels of the period).

As some have said, elaboration and plausible reasons why people do the things they do is interesting.

I will, however, groan if we have a Jacksonian pedestal. I have no love for that man...however, its your stuff, so I can't say boo...just the TOT is one of those things I want to slap him for....

Then you're going to hate the Union after it's Monroe and Clay presidencies. :rolleyes:
 
Monroe is slightly easier to handle....

Wish I could do historical, but the last time, I got into a strawman zone with the timeline....
 
Making the main character into a perfect...president/person/liberal president...

Sigh...Lion of Washington:The Election of 1868.....thats the problem thread.

The main character of this TL is America. Hamilton wasn't the perfect person OTL, and he might not be TTL. He had some good ideas but never had the chance to implement them, we just gave him that.
 
The main character of this TL is America. Hamilton wasn't the perfect person OTL, and he might not be TTL. He had some good ideas but never had the chance to implement them, we just gave him that.
I'm saying, thats why I can't do historicals...ASB allows me to do things, without worrying too greatly about butterflies...
 
My suspension of disbelief remains in pieces at the idea of a "very elite" American army. Hamilton ensuring the creation of a professional standing army that isn't so small as to be irrelevant? Believable. Hamilton ensuring that army is well instructed? Believable. Hamilton making an Elite Force? Oh come on.
 
My suspension of disbelief remains in pieces at the idea of a "very elite" American army. Hamilton ensuring the creation of a professional standing army that isn't so small as to be irrelevant? Believable. Hamilton ensuring that army is well instructed? Believable. Hamilton making an Elite Force? Oh come on.

I wouldn't be as brass to give all the credit to Hamilton. I remember you asking for other military leaders of the time, and I'm still looking. I would prefer someone more military oriented than Hamilton to take that charge.
 
I wouldn't be as brass to give all the credit to Hamilton. I remember you asking for other military leaders of the time, and I'm still looking. I would prefer someone more military oriented than Hamilton to take that charge.

Well, even if there are others, even building a professional army that can face Britain with some reasonable chance of success is an immense task.

Let alone something elite that can just overrun Canada like this.
 
The Army under Hamilton controlled Canada. When the Hartford Convention began, it was led by Hamilton who effectively controlled the area himself. It went with the North in the secession as it would be impossible for the Union to get troops there without attacking the North, something Jefferson had no intentions in doing.

I agree wholeheartedly. We couldn't really escape a Jefferson presidency, so we just had the North leave instead, and we thought we did it in the most plausible way possible. Jefferson's Presidency saved the North from the fate their southern cousins would have fared OTL by giving them time to establish themselves and international recognition.


The Union and Great Britain sign a peace treaty through the efforts of Secretary of the State James Monroe; Great Britain is to abide by the Adams doctrine, and remove itself from the Americas, its North American territories are to be turned over to the protection of the Union, and the Union is to reimburse Great Britain with 10,000,000 pounds.

So let me get this right - the Union has signed a peace accord with Great Britain but Columbia occupies Canada.

And the Union pays £10 million for land it doesn't occupy and then recognises Columbia as a separate nation. With what? Why?

Oh, and how does the Union / Columbia defeat the British Navy and retain their Carribean holdings let alone extend them

And how does Nappy get to last until 1819 as hegemon of Europe?

And if he does then why aren't the "small elite forces" of the North being hounded by a French Quebecer insurrection?
 
Well, surely i didn't exect this turn of events...:eek: But it wasn't a bit too early to promote the secession?
 
There was a slim possibility that OTL's Hartford Convention would lead there, but less as an act of rebellion and more one of diplomacy.
 
1823: James Monroe, the President of the United States dies in office. Monroe's vice president Henry clay assumes power despite opposition from Monroe's cabinet. He is sworn in 4 days later.

1824: Clay decides to run again, his only opponent; John C. Calhoun (DR) takes a severe loss against a landslide victory by Clay. Bureau of Indian affairs is established. The Marquis de Lafayette visits the US. He says that he is deeply saddened by the split of the US.

1825: Andrew Jackson engages several Mexican soldiers in Mexican territory. This action provokes a massive out cry and condemnation from Mexico. The United Kingdom finally claims ownership of all ex-Portuguese and French colonies all over the world. They also recognize the Empire of Dutch Indonesia as the successor state to the Kingdom of the Netherlands and permits them to claim and settle the western half of Australia.


ajackson.jpg


1826: Samuel Houston and his fellow Anglo settlers in Tejas begin to revolt against the oppressive “Republican” rule in Mexico. The Dutch colony of Nieuw Nederland is formed in West Australia. The City of Nieuwe Rotterdam is formed. (OTL Perth)

1827: The Missouri Compromise of 1827 begins. Presidents Clay and Hamilton discuss the fate of the Louisiana Purchase. They settle on an agreeable border to both sides and the peace is maintained. The Empire of Dutch Indonesia claims the Philippines with British consent.
HenryClay5.jpg


1828: Clay and Jackson square off for the Presidency of the Union. It is a tough battle, but Jackson earns his victory. Being the southern gentleman that he is, Clay invites him to the White House, and it is there that President-elect Jackson feels that President Clay insulted his honor and challenges the President to a duel. Clay later dies from his wounds on March 7th 1829, 3 days after Jackson takes office. President Alexander Hamilton dies in office at the age of 73. The candidates for Hamilton’s successor were J.Q. Adams (Liberty Party) and John Marshall (Constitution Party). Adams wins in a landslide, due to voters realizing that Marshall was the same age as Hamilton when he died

1829: Samuel Houston leads a band of rebels and defeats the local Mexican garrison at the Battle of the Rio Grande. He then proceeds to take the advice of one of his aide, Davy Crockett, and establishes the Kingdom of Texas on the grounds that he must “serve the people with the power vested in him via Public Right to Rule"

1830: Prime Minister Davy Crockett travels to Washington D.C. to meet with President Jackson. The two sign an alliance between their two nations and Jackson immediately declares war on the Republic of Mexico. The pair travels back to Texas together, with Jackson’s army preparing for war in hot pursuit.
080521-alamo-battle-hmed.grid-6x2.jpg


1831: The three powers of the region clash at the Battle of the Alamo. The Royal Army of Texas led by King Samuel I is defending the Alamo from Mexican attack, when General Santa Ana rushes the small fort. President Jackson and the US Army show up just in time to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. After having severely routed Santa Anna’s cavalry charge, he manages to capture the enemy General, to which he challenges to a duel. Jackson ends up stabbing the Mexican General in the eye. He sends it along with his peace demands to the Mexican President, who immediately agrees.

1832: President J.Q. Adams appoints General Vincent Robinson; commander of the Columbian forces that captured Quebec during the War of 1812, to lead an expedition into the West in the name of the Columbian Federation, General Robinson accepts the offer. William Lyon Mackenzie, a newspaper writer from the Territory of Ontario joins him to document the Columbian invasion. Mackenzie would later use these documents as a base for his fictional novel Knuckleberry & Gin.
 
1823: James Monroe, the President of the United States dies in office. Monroe's vice president Henry clay assumes power despite opposition from Monroe's cabinet. He is sworn in 4 days later.

1824: Clay decides to run again, his only opponent; John C. Calhoun (DR) takes a severe loss against a landslide victory by Clay. Bureau of Indian affairs is established. The Marquis de Lafayette visits the US. He says that he is deeply saddened by the split of the US.

1825: Andrew Jackson engages several Mexican soldiers in Mexican territory. This action provokes a massive out cry and condemnation from Mexico. The United Kingdom finally claims ownership of all ex-Portuguese and French colonies all over the world. They also recognize the Empire of Dutch Indonesia as the successor state to the Kingdom of the Netherlands and permits them to claim and settle the western half of Australia.

See. I do not follow any of that.



1826: Samuel Houston and his fellow Anglo settlers in Tejas begin to revolt against the oppressive “Republican” rule in Mexico. (OTL Perth)

Sam Houston in 1826. Twenty years earlier than in OTL.
in Texas?
WTF


1827: The Missouri Compromise of 1827 begins. Presidents Clay and Hamilton discuss the fate of the Louisiana Purchase. They settle on an agreeable border to both sides and the peace is maintained. The Empire of Dutch Indonesia claims the Philippines with British consent.

No offense, but because the Louisiana Purchase was purchased by the UNITED STATES, then it should actually beling to said country, not to the Colombian Confederation.


1828: Clay and Jackson square off for the Presidency of the Union. It is a tough battle, but Jackson earns his victory. Being the southern gentleman that he is, Clay invites him to the White House, and it is there that President-elect Jackson feels that President Clay insulted his honor and challenges the President to a duel. Clay later dies from his wounds on March 7th 1829, 3 days after Jackson takes office. President Alexander Hamilton dies in office at the age of 73. The candidates for Hamilton’s successor were J.Q. Adams (Liberty Party) and John Marshall (Constitution Party). Adams wins in a landslide, due to voters realizing that Marshall was the same age as Hamilton when he died

Somehow Jackson and Clay dueling and one dying makes sense.

1829: Samuel Houston leads a band of rebels and defeats the local Mexican garrison at the Battle of the Rio Grande. He then proceeds to take the advice of one of his aide, Davy Crockett, and establishes the Kingdom of Texas on the grounds that he must “serve the people with the power vested in him via Public Right to Rule"

1830: Prime Minister Davy Crockett travels to Washington D.C. to meet with President Jackson. The two sign an alliance between their two nations and Jackson immediately declares war on the Republic of Mexico. The pair travels back to Texas together, with Jackson’s army preparing for war in hot pursuit.

Again. WTF
That makes no sense.
Amazing how many timeline that start out Republican become a monarchial system within several years.
King Samuel Houston. Come on.


1831: The three powers of the region clash at the Battle of the Alamo. The Royal Army of Texas led by King Samuel I is defending the Alamo from Mexican attack, when General Santa Ana rushes the small fort. President Jackson and the US Army show up just in time to turn the tide of the battle in their favor. After having severely routed Santa Anna’s cavalry charge, he manages to capture the enemy General, to which he challenges to a duel. Jackson ends up stabbing the Mexican General in the eye. He sends it along with his peace demands to the Mexican President, who immediately agrees.

1832: President J.Q. Adams appoints General Vincent Robinson; commander of the Columbian forces that captured Quebec during the War of 1812, to lead an expedition into the West in the name of the Columbian Federation, General Robinson accepts the offer. William Lyon Mackenzie, a newspaper writer from the Territory of Ontario joins him to document the Columbian invasion. Mackenzie would later use these documents as a base for his fictional novel Knuckleberry & Gin.

again
WHAT THE FUCK!
 
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