Bactrian-Margianian Empire Bronze age

Yun-shuno

Banned
A bit more obscure-a Soviet scientist found evidence in the 1970s of a civilization in around the center of Central Asia. Said civilization is surmised to have indo-Iranian language and contact with the harappans and the Eurasian steppe.

So all in all what is the potential of a Bronze Age empire coming down from the mountains of Afganistan circa 2000 BC?
 

fi11222

Banned
It is a great idea. The question is, what do you consider to be the POD since we know so little about the BMAC?

Would you subscribe to the idea that they were pre-Vedic IE speakers ? If so, where would you take them? West into Iran? East into India? Would they have some sort of writing system? Would they be riding horse-drawn chariots into battle? There is a ton of possibilities but you pretty much have to invent everything.

One possible idea would be to throw in some sort of pre-Zarathustra in the mix. The location would fit what many modern scholars think was the general area where Zarathustra was born and lived. And Sarianidi even posited a BMAC origin for the "Zarathustra" reform movement.
 
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Are there any documents or websites detailing the parts of this culture? Otherwise it would be very interesting to see a civilization rise at this point,
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
Are there any documents or websites detailing the parts of this culture? Otherwise it would be very interesting to see a civilization rise at this point,
As far as I understand it's pretty obscure as far as popular knowledge goes. There is a discover magazine article from 2006 that talks about it.

Anyway it's interesting for sure.
 

fi11222

Banned
Ok, since our friend Yun does not seem to be very eager to start working on his own thread, I will pitch in.

1. The "Zarathustra" reform movement starts in the BMAC like in our TL. It turns the old deivas of the Indo-Iraninan pantheon into demons and the previously demonized asuras into gods, while moving towards a form of quasi-monotheism centered on Ahura-Mazda.
2. In our TL, the pre-vedic still deiva-worsipping nomatic tribes north of the BMAC (Andronovo-related in some way?) attacked the settled BMAC sites, probably weakened them enough to cause their fall and then went on to invade India and topple the Harappan civilization in the process. Here, the POD would be that the BMAC is sufficiently stronger than IOTL to stave off the nomadic incursions from the north thus saving itself and the Harappans too.
3. A fused BMAC-Harappan civilization eventually emerges after several centuries; say around 1700 BC.
4. The Harappan pictograms are adopted by both cultures and eventually evolve into a sufficiently developed writing system to put in writing the core texts (hymns) of the early Zoroastrian religion.
5. During the second half of the 2nd millenium BC, a fully monotheistic religion develops out of Early Zoroastrism, in the BMAC area or in the Indus valley, predating Judaism by 500 years.
6. This religion eventually spawns a martyred-savior centered heterodox branch around 500BC, which spreads mostly east and out-competes Buddhism and Jaininsm (I assume that India was eventually conquered by IE speakers in this TL as well, although slightly later and that the history of the Ganges valley remains pretty much the same).

....

100. China experiences a steam-coal-steel industrial revolution around 1500 AD.
101. China colonizes the Americas with the help of firearms and steam-driven Pacific-Ocean crossing dreadnoughts.
102. New China lands a Taikonoaut on the Moon by 1850 AD

Comments welcome.
 

Yun-shuno

Banned
Ok, since our friend Yun does not seem to be very eager to start working on his own thread, I will pitch in.

1. The "Zarathustra" reform movement starts in the BMAC like in our TL. It turns the old deivas of the Indo-Iraninan pantheon into demons and the previously demonized asuras into gods, while moving towards a form of quasi-monotheism centered on Ahura-Mazda.
2. In our TL, the pre-vedic still deiva-worsipping nomatic tribes north of the BMAC (Andronovo-related in some way?) attacked the settled BMAC sites, probably weakened them enough to cause their fall and then went on to invade India and topple the Harappan civilization in the process. Here, the POD would be that the BMAC is sufficiently stronger than IOTL to stave off the nomadic incursions from the north thus saving itself and the Harappans too.
3. A fused BMAC-Harappan civilization eventually emerges after several centuries; say around 1700 BC.
4. The Harappan pictograms are adopted by both cultures and eventually evolve into a sufficiently developed writing system to put in writing the core texts (hymns) of the early Zoroastrian religion.
5. During the second half of the 2nd millenium BC, a fully monotheistic religion develops out of Early Zoroastrism, in the BMAC area or in the Indus valley, predating Judaism by 500 years.
6. This religion eventually spawns a martyred-savior centered heterodox branch around 500BC, which spreads mostly east and out-competes Buddhism and Jaininsm (I assume that India was eventually conquered by IE speakers in this TL as well, although slightly later and that the history of the Ganges valley remains pretty much the same).

....

100. China experiences a steam-coal-steel industrial revolution around 1500 AD.
101. China colonizes the Americas with the help of firearms and steam-driven Pacific-Ocean crossing dreadnoughts.
102. New China lands a Taikonoaut on the Moon by 1850 AD

Comments welcome.
I guess the problem with this idea was just how obscure the culture was and how little information we have.

I just thought it was an interesting idea.
 
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