Back from the Brink: A study of the Western Survival

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I don't know much about Late Roman period, but I'll subscribe to this since you don't get surviving Western Roman Empire done well all too often.
 
Hmm, interesting thing with Sarus. OTL, after Olympiodorus fell from favor, Sarus filled the power vacuum for control over Honorius, and his anti-Alaric policy wasa even worse than Olympiodorus' because it was directly aimed against Alaric instead of Germanic barbarians in general, before he fell out of favor due to constant complaining over how he was being treated, and was eventually killed by Athaulf.

It's good to see here that Sarus is doing better-I've always had a soft spot for him second to Stilicho.\
 
WTF with the obsession with racial purity on the part of the aristocracy in the 5th Century?

I just can't understand why the wealthy aristocracy of Roman Empire after seeing the Empire brought to its height by Spanish Provincial Emperors in the 2nd Century, saved from extinction by Illyrian Provincial Emperors in the 3rd Century would suddenly pick this dire time to become obsessed with racial purity so as to deny ethnically German but culturally Roman leaders, STILICHO to be exact, the highest office and force them to rule from behind a screen. Maybe in an ATL like this the Empire embraces this new infusion of Germanic vigor and instead of antagonists we see the likes of Emperor Stilicho, Emperor Aetius, and eventually Roman Emperor/King of the Goths Theodosius son of Galla Placidia and Atalf. A line of German Emperors that "Revived the Roman name".

Hell we mighta seen the likes of Magister Militum Alaric and Magister Militum Gensaric! Imagine the benefits of the Visigoths and the Vandals as loyal auxiliaries and legionaires rather than barbarian laeti!

Hero of Canton

Hero of Canton

Coming late to the discussion so this may have been answered but a couple of possibilities:
a) The provincial emperors you mentioned were from the provinces, i.e. 'Roman' by at least the loosest definition of the word. I think most of the early ones were from Roman settler colonies and later on all inhabitants of the empire were viewed as Romans. However now we have barbarians from beyond the empire coming in, not just as mercenaries but effectively as conquerors or at least leaders in their own right.

b) You also have a religious issue as most of the Germans were Arian in belief or pagan while the ruling elite [at least] in the west were stoutly Catholic Christian. The rule of Julian and then Arbogast's attempted rebellion might have heighten concerns about the certainty of Christianities dominance. I know at least some of the bloody clashes in Theodosius's time were due to religious disputes.

Steve
 
b) You also have a religious issue as most of the Germans were Arian in belief or pagan while the ruling elite [at least] in the west were stoutly Catholic Christian. The rule of Julian and then Arbogast's attempted rebellion might have heighten concerns about the certainty of Christianities dominance. I know at least some of the bloody clashes in Theodosius's time were due to religious disputes.

Steve

It's a common misconception that Arbogast and Eugenius were pagans. They were staunch Christians. The reasons why they showed pro-Pagan policies was because they wanted to firmly have the Italian and Senatorial elite on their side, which was mostly still made up of pagans.
 

Deleted member 67076

Chapter 4: The Calm before the Storm, Part 1

Late summer, 410

Rome is in celebration. Church bells ring, poets sing and people dance at the news. For the siege has been lifted! The Goths have fled! Mighty Rome remains untouchable! The lifting of the siege has done wonders for the morale of the city and as the populace is thankful towards their saviors, parading them around the city. Both Patrician and Plebian, free man and slave, join in celebration. The stunning victory against the Goths has convinced Constantinus of Sarus’ skill in battle, and he decides to recruit him for the upcoming campaign in Gaul.

Emperor Honorius, has briefly joined in the festivies, but mainly to survey the situation. What he sees frightens him. Ever since Sarus met Constantinus, the two have grown ever more forceful against him, with even that barbarian Sarus having the audacity to order him around. Honorius is well aware that he is their puppet, but there is little he can do. He fears them, and that fear keeps him indecisive. The fear is not without reason, however. They are popular, both with the common folk and with the elite. He had seen even Senators giving praise of their valor. On the battlefield, the two are well skilled. And with that victory against Alaric, diuumvirate has gained the loyalty of Rome, at least for now. As well, their armies are disciplined and loyal. To him this is not good, not good at all. For Honorius, he fears a possible coup may happen by the two popular heroes, especially now, at the height of their popularity. Yet, he refuses to do anything, lest he face the wrath of angry Romans rioting against him. So for now, the emperor secludes himself in Ravenna, as always, biding his time and waiting for the problem to go away.

Rome, September 410.

Constantinus, while enjoying the spotlight, is less than happy. Rome may feel invincible but he knows better. For soon, he will have to campaign again. Sitting here, hearing reports from messengers about the situation in Gaul has him nervous. . Gaul is a powder keg waiting to explode. War rages with many new factors adding into the mess. From the north, Constantine the pretender and his armies, bolstered by Frankish federates have been attempting establish dominion while Gerontius has been attempting the same from the south. His messengers report that Gerontius and Constantine have been busy, and that Gaul has entered a state of chaos.

The expulsions of the Vandals and Alans into Gaul a year ago have wrecked havoc. And now, the Visigoths and Franks are added into the mix. This was bad, very bad. One usurper was a bad enough annoyance, and too just adds to the mess. But with Barbarians entering the mix? That was just asking for a death wish. Calculating his options, the general sighed in annoyance.

This would be a long war.

Meanwhile Sarus, after finally getting his revenge had been what could only describe as elated. The general reveled in the praise he was receiving; in addition to finally getting his revenge. Sarus thirsts for blood, wanting to finish the fight and return home to even more glory.

Near the Alps, Late August, 410:

The Gothic Horde continues its hasty migration out of Italia. In the weeks that follow their loss at the Siege of Rome, the Goths have fled to the safety of the mountains and the hinterland, where they will be able to safely regroup. The mood is bitter, with a sense of dread overtaking the tribesmen. For others, anger takes place of dread and calls to war are everywhere.

Alaric, in particular is infuriated with the Romans. His forces routed from the battle, and after being so close. So close from obtaining his prize, only to have it taken away from him. What was briefly shock had by now turned to anger, and anger to hatred. He vows vengeance against the empire, swearing that he will avenge his loss and personally kill Sarus. Alaric is a shrewd man, and does not immediately do anything other than continue the retreat. For he knows his people are not ready. Revenge, while on everyone’s mind was not going to happen. Plans must be made and strategies considered. By the time the Goths could safely launch an invasion the Romans would have fortified their defenses. War would be long and brutal. The warriors are getting restless and must be placated before revolt occurs.

Amongst the common folk, there has been some talk of mutiny, of killing the brothers and crowing a new king amongst the warriors. One who will lead them to glory and victory! Fortunately for the Gothic brothers, dissent is far from universal and most of the warriors withhold their anger. For now.
As the peoples continue their migrations, they enter Southern Gaul. In the months that follow the Goths begin to lick their wounds and reorganize.
And so the horde moves, unaware of what the future holds for them.
 

Deleted member 67076

For someone who's relatively new to this, it's good. Honorius will probably find a means to break hold of Sarus and Flavius Constantius' influence somewhere down the road. He did have Stilicho executed.
Indeed. But what's to say there aren't contingency plans for that?
I don't know much about Late Roman period, but I'll subscribe to this since you don't get surviving Western Roman Empire done well all too often.

Hmm, interesting thing with Sarus. OTL, after Olympiodorus fell from favor, Sarus filled the power vacuum for control over Honorius, and his anti-Alaric policy was even worse than Olympiodorus' because it was directly aimed against Alaric instead of Germanic barbarians in general, before he fell out of favor due to constant complaining over how he was being treated, and was eventually killed by Athaulf.

It's good to see here that Sarus is doing better-I've always had a soft spot for him second to Stilicho.\

Yes, it looks good so far.
Thanks guys!:eek: This is my first attempt at a timeline featuring the Western Rome Empire.
 
I like what I've read so far, it's nice to see a WRE timeline that doesn't go into Wank mode too quickly. Keep up the good work, and remember to use maps! They help readers visualize things.
 
If Alaric dies, it will be interesting to see who fills the Gothic power vacuum if Alaric bites the dust: Sarus and Athaulf are the two likeliest candidates I think: Both are from rival families though. I think now would be a good time for Constantius to maybe support Sarus as ruler of Alaric's goths if Alaric were to die because it's a win win: He knows Sarus is a loyal ally; it leaves him as sole de facto ruler of the western empire; he can easily come to a settlement agreement with Sarus and the Goths.

Alternatively, he can still reach out to Alaric, but Alaric doesn't seem to be in a strong position to negotiate, and I doubt he'll settle for something like being pushed back into the Balkans.
 

Deleted member 67076

I like what I've read so far, it's nice to see a WRE timeline that doesn't go into Wank mode too quickly. Keep up the good work, and remember to use maps! They help readers visualize things.
Thanks! And I will. You'll see another Gaul map to help visualize the situation.

If Alaric dies, it will be interesting to see who fills the Gothic power vacuum if Alaric bites the dust: Sarus and Athaulf are the two likeliest candidates I think: Both are from rival families though. I think now would be a good time for Constantius to maybe support Sarus as ruler of Alaric's goths if Alaric were to die because it's a win win: He knows Sarus is a loyal ally; it leaves him as sole de facto ruler of the western empire; he can easily come to a settlement agreement with Sarus and the Goths.

Alternatively, he can still reach out to Alaric, but Alaric doesn't seem to be in a strong position to negotiate, and I doubt he'll settle for something like being pushed back into the Balkans.
Alaric's Goths aren't likely to side with the Romans because of the Roman govts increasing hostility to the Goths (especially their leaders).

Constantinus needs to fix the issues in Gaul first. After that is resolved he may attempt to place Sarus as the Goths leader and secure their alliance.
 

Deleted member 67076

I'm really sorry for this being so late and so short, but what had happened was that my laptop died, taking all my research, notes and updates with it. As such, I had to restart much of this timeline from scratch, and thus couldn't advance. Fortunately, things should be back on track and updates will be more frequent. I'm also thinking of expanding this with a narrative. Thoughts?

The Calm Before the Storm, Part 2

Eastern Gaul, September 410

Constantine the pretender wiped the sweat of his brow and sighed in relief. A battle had been won. However, not just any battle, it was one against Gerontius. One where his forces had decisively beaten Gerontius’ and the traitor himself had been killed by a stray arrow while retreating. It had been a great fortune cornering Gerontius. Without him, Maximus of Hispania's grip will be much less secure; some may even revolt, further weakening his opponent’s power and potentially depriving him of a power base.

As such, the pretender is in a good mood, the first time in months. All has been relatively well. The Franks have been a tremendous aid against his war and have been loyal to him. His forces have, while suffering many losses, managed to steadily gain victories against the opposition, capturing many cities among eastern Gaul.

The Franks however, are less than pleased. They have been increasingly annoyed with Constantine’s empty promises of land. It’s always “one more battle” with him, one more campaign. First he offers them land in Neustria, then in Aquitaine, and then Hispania. Their patience has been slowly running thin. However, they remain, Constantine has done a good job of paying with loot, and as such they remain satisfied. For now.

With Maximus of Hispania effectively neutralized, Constantine can plan for the final assault. The march on Rome herself.

But things are never so simple. To get to Italia, one must get through southern Gaul, which as of this moment is a mess of barbarians. Vandals, Alans, Goths, among other less noticeable tribes have effective control of the area. Fortunately they are not united, and Gerontius has done a good job of battering them somewhat during his campaigns. Afterword’s begins the march on Italia herself, where he’ll have to come to blows with the Roman army.

-----

And so the situation in Gaul is a perilous one. The years have not been kind to it. For following the death of Stilicho, countless barbarians have poured into the land, all with the hope that they may gain a new life. Those tribes that have made the long journey across the Rhine have ventured into numerous directions. Some have gone north, while others south.


The once prosperous region has become a battlefield of various factions all attempting to defeat the others and claim victory. Warlords control the cities, whist usurpers attempt to carve out their own fiefdoms. In the long run however, they don’t matter. Their time is limited. For the main claimants of Gaul are Constantine the Pretender and Constantinus III. Both are readying their men and preparing their invasions.

The moment that everyone has been waiting for shall be at hand. All of the the empire holds their breath in anticipation.
 
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Given that he has apparently gone down in history as 'the Pretender', it looks like he wont succeed to the purple and become Constantine iv.

Im guessing Alaric forges a force of barbarians in southern Gaul and theres an epic clash between them and the pretender, probably gutting both forces and freeing Italia from immediate (external) danger. Although you do seem to be foreshadowing a usurpation by Sarus.
 

Deleted member 67076

Given that he has apparently gone down in history as 'the Pretender', it looks like he wont succeed to the purple and become Constantine iv.

Im guessing Alaric forges a force of barbarians in southern Gaul and theres an epic clash between them and the pretender, probably gutting both forces and freeing Italia from immediate (external) danger. Although you do seem to be foreshadowing a usurpation by Sarus.
You're mostly correct. Constantine won't become the Emperor and Alaric will try to rally as soon as he hears of the incoming Roman army.

However, just because they are barbarians doesn't mean they'll get along.

The last one I'll keep quiet on. ;)
 
I seem to have missed this update until now. Interesting foreshadowing. I am rather fond of Saurus, but I have a soft spot for Constantius. Saurus would be wise to use his influence in the Gothic camp to his advantage.
 

Deleted member 67076

Mini update that I hope will show the plans that our Diumvirate have, and give some insight on their personalities. Disclaimer: I reserve the right to use my artistic license to change their personalities for the sake of the story and comedy. (I was able to find that both were very competent, but Sarus was known for being rather hot blooded, heroic and intrepid.) If it feels that I'm dragging this along, please say so and I'll get right into the war.


Chapter 5

Near the outskirts of Augusta Taurinorum, March 10 411 CE


After a magnificent farewell party, the Roman armies began their march southwest, their plan to secure Gaul, driving and/or recruiting the barbarians to fight Constantine the Pretender’s forces in Northern Gaul.

However, the circumstances in Gaul lead to the problem of where to attack. Should he go north and eliminate The Pretender, the barbarians would flee south into Spain. Again. And if he cleared out the south, the usurper could attack Rome, or worse, fight him with his troops exhausted from war, possibly killing him, then marching on Rome, then killing Honorius and taking over. Eventually they had decided to south, as reports had come in that Constantinus had decided to take a southern route as well, attempting to regain Hispania before going for Rome.

Hispania strangely had remained largely loyal to Roman forces in the time that barbarians were expelled. The Suebi, unlike most barbarians (from Constantius’ point of view) were largely peaceful. They did not take advantage of the chaos in Hispania to secure more land, being content with their holdings in the east. As such, it was still largely prosperous and a potential source of manpower.

-----

Constantius took a sharp breath as the army began its march southward. “Here we go” He muttered, knowing that just like predecessors before him, he would be taking a huge risk by going to war. But it was now or never. The faster Rome reconquers her provinces, the faster peace and order can be restored.

Atop his horse, Constantius looked at his army, marching in perfect formation. He could feel the excitement, the energy among the soldiers. They were eager for battle, and it showed.

He slightly scoffed. The men were, while disciplined (for now), well equipped and in good morale, drunk from the recent victory against the Gothic brothers. They believe Rome was invincible; that she had God (or the gods, can’t ignore our pagan soldiers) on her side. It didn’t help that Sarus himself kept boasting of the inevitable Roman victory, along with saying that once they kill Alaric and Ataulf, he’ll be in charge of the Goths, and he’ll ‘civilize’ them into ‘proper’ Romans.

They didn’t know of the trouble Gaul had become, merely that barbarians controlled the south and the pretender the north.

“Cheer up dammit.” Constantius was interrupted from his musings by a gravelly voice to his right. Looking around, he saw that it was Sarus, munching on an apple atop his steed, with that idiotic smirk he always wore. “You’ve been worried ever since Honorius told us to retake Gaul. Relax a bit.”

Constantinus rolled his eyes. “Excuse me for being concerned about marching into a death trap. You want to go ahead and get killed by your fellow barbarians, be my guest. But I won’t.”

Sarus' snorted. “You Romans just don’t have the balls to march in there and solve the problem yourselves. Have to rely on us ‘barbarians’ to solve all your problems. Besides, did ya forget? I’m one of them! I can get the Goths to fight for us right after we kill that bastard Alaric.”

“And what if don’t, hm?” Constantius replied. “For all we know they could see you as a traitor who’s forgotten his roots. The lapdog of the Romans.”

“Piss off Flavius.” Constantius slightly laughed at Sarus’ irritation.

Despite the effectiveness of their partnership, there was some friction between the two, mostly due to the clash of personalities. Nevertheless it is evident that a sort of friendship formed between the soldiers.
 
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