Aztec Empire: 1700 - 1900

well i was planning for the tlaxcala to be part of the groups that the aztecs demonize to be something along the lines of helping to unify the other natives. but again, nothing is set in stone just yet, so ill consider this. anti-spanish factions of tlaxcala sound like a pretty good idea. ill also look into the totonacs

the main idea is that the spanish colonization of the americas still pretty much goes through but the natives mostly survive and regain power later

Kinda hard when everyone in OTL hated the Aztecs hence their preference for the Spaniards who did reward their native allies with limited forms of autonomy within the colonial regime. But you're oversimplifying things here.
 
Its funny how when I mentioned that in the original thread, I was promptly told how a change in New Spain wouldn't have any affect on French/British colonization of North American and the ARW :rolleyes:
What? Original thread? 'Splainy please?:confused:

As well, your OTL version of Mexico isn't going to be the only native group that does 'better' than ITL - by the time of your POD without major European intervention several states and statelets are going to be in much better position by the time of later European (or even Islamic African [Mali, Songhai, or the Ottomans]) intervention. A short-list would include the 'Iroquois' (Haudenosaunee), Mississippians, Pueblo &/or Navajo, Inca, Muisca and Mapuche.
The Iriquois might not be. OTL the reason they became the dominant tribe in the Northeast was because of support from the dutch and later the English. Prior to the guns from the Dutch in the fur wars, the Hurons are just as likely(possibly more considering their bigger trade and ally network in the Great Lakes) to become dominant. Of course, that all depends on how the European interest in the area develops.

The Powhatan, the main chesapeke area tribe, might also be a good candidate, although that depends heavily on if the Europeans get as involved as they did OTL, especially if someone gets into the Tobacco trade as firmly as OTL which would just as OTL be a very bad situation for them. I might also suggest the Pequots, but I've never found a whole lot of information and I'm not sure how much of their power came from alliance with colonists to deal with their rival neighbours.

The rest are all very true.
 
The problem is that the Aztecs were the equivalents of the local bully; steal your lunch money, give you a swirly or a wedgy, beat you up if you looked at them wrong, or for no good reason other than they felt like it--the equivalent of that type of guy. The Spanish were the new kid in class who stands up to the bully, though of course in retrospect they were arguably worse than the Aztecs.

The downsides of Spanish rule didn't all become apparent for decades, and a lot of individual Indian families profited from Spanish rule for generations, going from peasants with no way to rise beyond that to a fair amount of power in the Spanish system. The few thousand Spaniards couldn't have ruled millions of Indians without a lot of help from the Indians initially. They had that help because they offered upward mobility for people who didn't have it in the old system.

The Aztecs weren't going to be the core of a popular underground movement against the Spanish. If they tried, their former victims would fall over each other in ratting them out. Simple as that.
 
well what do you suppose it would take for the aztecs to win at least half of the other natives over to their side? that plus the mayans who side with guerrero would probably give them enough of a fighting chance against the spanish until the pro-spanish natives figure out that theyre better with the aztecs than the spanish
 
well what do you suppose it would take for the aztecs to win at least half of the other natives over to their side? that plus the mayans who side with guerrero would probably give them enough of a fighting chance against the spanish until the pro-spanish natives figure out that theyre better with the aztecs than the spanish

Maybe if the Aztecs weren't being such bullies to everyone else before the Spanish ever arrived in the region because no matter how cruel the Spanish are, no native group would want to be associated with the Aztecs. I see something more plausible arising out of Tlaxcala.
 
hm...perhaps a lesser POD could be that the aztecs focus their fury and flower wars on the tlaxcala and one or two other groups while befriending other tribes? the major POD here is a major survival of the fall of tenochtitlan, though.

tbph, im content with the aztec history that i have so far. i mainly want to focus on where and how cortez could die (either in battle or by execution after being shamed worse than he ever had OTL) and then focusing on their more modern history. after all, my ATL goes much further than the 16th century
 
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