Axis turkey

well, Germany could have offered them a slice of the caucasus.

I suspect Ankara was well aware that it wasn't Hitler's to give and had a better appreciation of the realities of Soviet power.

The most likely reaction would be "What, again? For how stupid do you take us?"
 
A possable way would be for rommel or the italians (i know that rommel was under italian command) to do a lot better in africa so they can show turky that they have a chance of winning. After all if they manage to win before torch im pretty sure that something like talking to the turks would be a smaller task.

And is anyone else noticing a lot more of these really short threads? (i know im guilty of making one:D).
 
A possable way would be for rommel or the italians (i know that rommel was under italian command) to do a lot better in africa so they can show turky that they have a chance of winning. After all if they manage to win before torch im pretty sure that something like talking to the turks would be a smaller task.

And is anyone else noticing a lot more of these really short threads? (i know im guilty of making one:D).

The Turks weren't playing a computer game - they had no irridentist ambitions and were still in recovery from WWI. It's hard to imagine the Axis doing better than they actually were, yet that didn't get the Turks to join. You would need a POD where Turkey is a much different place than it was.
 
Or where they don't have much choice in the matter.

Perhaps a scenario where Hitler delays Barbarossa another year and launches an all-out effort against the British in Egypt and the Middle East?
 
The Turks weren't playing a computer game - they had no irridentist ambitions and were still in recovery from WWI. It's hard to imagine the Axis doing better than they actually were, yet that didn't get the Turks to join. You would need a POD where Turkey is a much different place than it was.

Actually i ment if they managed north africa they could say that they could attack turkey if they wanted too. Istanbul is open after all and they could make it across the strait. Attacking from the middle east is probably too ambitious though the italians and AKorps are going to be really tired after they reach the suez. But who knows.
 
AHP's correct. The Axis' OTL success is at the far extreme end of the probability curve. During the early years of the war they were almost impossibly, consistently, lucky.

For the OP, I think you'd need to have the Yurks somehow we defeated by the Greeks, so that there is a Greek Istanbul and an Asian part of Greece.

Then you'd somehow have to kill butterflies for 20 years, and you might see Turkish irredentism.
 

General Zod

Banned
AHP's correct. The Axis' OTL success is at the far extreme end of the probability curve. During the early years of the war they were almost impossibly, consistently, lucky.

Yet they had their abundant share of missed chances and bad decisions that paved the way to ultimate defeat. Some major ones:

-Decision to invade Czechoslovakia after Munich, which prompted Britain to give guarantee to Poland and lose all faith in Hitler's trustworthiness. Failure to develop a decent casus belli about Poland in the eyes of the world, by provoking them to do someothing rash in Danzig. In combination, these two caused Anglo-French intervention.

-Not letting the Anglo-French attack Norway first, which would have improved their reputation with neutrals and let them intervene with the acquiescence of Norway.

-Failure to destroy the pocket at Dunkirk, which let the Britain save the vast majority of their professional officers & NCOs, have troops to spare to defend North Africa & the Middle East (and intervene in Greece), not to suffer a morale-crushing defeat (which could have brought Churchill down), and led to the creation of Free France.

-Lack of timely acknowledgement that Britain is not going to sue for peace, and Sealion is impossible, and swift switching to a Mediterranean strategy. Major coordination and focus of Axis forces in the Mediterranean in Summer-Fall 1940 could have avoided the Greek war, netted Malta, an brought Axis forces at Suez at the very least, which could have brought Churchill down, prompted Spain and Vichy France to join the Axis. With the Axis at Suez, the Iraqi rise up against the British, and with availability of Syrian ports and airports, Axis troops may be sent to support pro-Axis rebels, which denies Iraq oil to Britain and traps them in a strategic vise in Palestine (with the local Arabs rising up for Axis). Most reasonable outcome, the British lose Middle East, Churchill has a very high chance of falling, Axis has plenty of oil, Iran and concede me this point, Turkey have very good chances of joining the Axis, which is rather bad news for the USSR.

-Failure to discover Canaris' treason, which prevented Spain from joining the Axis.
 
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